RealGM: Atlanta [possibly] interested in Greg Monroe [as FA in 2015]

[IheartVolt]

Yes he is. He wasn't an elite player but he was a max player. Very good two way PF who can play and defend multiple positions, score with elite efficiency and shoot at an extremely clip. Bosh got a max deal. Why wouldn't we give Al one if that's what he wanted.

Yea well for one Bosh is better then All , and two , no way Miami should have given him that contract

[NBASupes]

Yea well for one Bosh is better then All , and two , no way Miami should have given him that contract

You sure? 

 

Look at 13-14

http://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=201143&VsPlayerID=2547&range=2007&range=2014

 

Look at 12-13

http://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=201143&VsPlayerID=2547&range=2007&range=2014

 

Al's been slow to get to his level this year? What about this year? 

 

http://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=201143&VsPlayerID=2547&range=2007&range=2014

 

BAUSE!

Edited December 10, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[benhillboy]

I truly think Bud rather draft Bigs out of college (4 years at that) and develop them even more, and I totally agree. 90% of these Bigs don't have half the instruction that players of 25 years ago had and it shows. Monroe going to Georgetown for 2 years is a better foundation than most, but still way behind the level of know-how and technical skills that Bud is used to with Big Fundamental. He doesn't have time to beat out losing habits on top of trying to incorporate him into a system built for the smarter NBA player.

Look at Moose, Payne, Sap, and Al. Highly decorated and/or extensive college careers for all of 'em. They have the foundation to build upon that Bud, Danny, and Elton look for.

The only guys I can think of off top that Bud would welcome here in place of Al or Sap would be Noah and Hibbert. Al Jefferson is some type of alien to have that post game with no college, but his struggles defensively show his skipped steps. I'm simply not big on the Euro Bigs that are all the rage in here like Marc Gasol, let alone Pekovic or Asik.

Edited December 10, 2014 by benhillboy

[IheartVolt]

You sure?

Look at 13-14

http://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=201143&VsPlayerID=2547&range=2007&range=2014

Look at 12-13

http://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=201143&VsPlayerID=2547&range=2007&range=2014

Al's been slow to get to his level this year? What about this year?

http://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=201143&VsPlayerID=2547&range=2007&range=2014

BAUSE!

I see how you work. Use stats only when they support your point.

[Admin]

It kinda hard to to truly evaluated him on stats in Detroit due to total lack of spacing and just bad chemistry. We all know he lacks range outside of the paint. We all know he isn't a great finisher due to his lack of explosiveness. Don't underrate his defense on real centers, his BBIQ and his movement on offense. All plays a role into his value. He is a 18-10 center who can defend centers, score in the paint and pass and move at an extremely high rate. He is my #1 target and yes, I would easily pay max for him. I know that makes you mad because while I agree Sap is better right now, I wouldn't pay Sap more than 12 mil a year with the new upcoming cap and I like Sap. Just don't see that type of value. No one really does but someone will overpay.

If you can't prove in 4 years that you can shoot outside of 3' then guess what... you can't shoot outside of 3'. That's a MAJOR hole in his game in the current NBA. And to add his atrocious defense on top of that he's got failure written all over his next contract.

I would (and do will multiple teams) GLADLY pay Sap 10-12 million vs the same for Monroe. Now if we are talking Monroe at 7-8 then maybe we have a discussion. But he's probably going to get some sucker to give him 15.

[AHF]

While I don't think Monroe is a max guy at all, Supes does have a very real point here.  Monroe can't be utilized correctly in Detroit with Drummond owning the post.  Whatever limited range Monroe has is doubly so for Drummond, so Drummond occupies the space and role on offense that Monroe should do for another team (i.e., a role similar to Al Jefferson) and Drummond guards the guy that Monroe should be guarding (whichever big is not the stretch guy).  It is like using Teague as Woody did (as an off-the-ball jump shooter instead of a ballhandler and penetrator):  when you don't put the guy in a position to succeed and he doesn't succeed don't be surprised.  

 

The interesting thing will be whether this year damages his market value.  If that is the case then we should look at him because it may result in the price being right.  SA has made good use of guys who can only defend centers and who have no perimeter range over the years.  If the price is max money, then forget it.  But I wouldn't write him off too quickly.

[Admin]

I truly think Bud rather draft Bigs out of college (4 years at that) and develop them even more, and I totally agree. 90% of these Bigs don't have half the instruction that players of 25 years ago had and it shows. Monroe going to Georgetown for 2 years is a better foundation than most, but still way behind the level of know-how and technical skills that Bud is used to with Big Fundamental. He doesn't have time to beat out losing habits on top of trying to incorporate him into a system built for the smarter NBA player.

Look at Moose, Payne, Sap, and Al. Highly decorated and/or extensive college careers for all of 'em. They have the foundation to build upon that Bud, Danny, and Elton look for.

The only guys I can think of off top that Bud would welcome here in place of Al or Sap would be Noah and Hibbert. Al Jefferson is some type of alien to have that post game with no college, but his struggles defensively show his skipped steps. I'm simply not big on the Euro Bigs that are all the rage in here like Marc Gasol, let alone Pekovic or Asik.

Liked except I don't agree with the part about the Euro bigs. These guys are the new breed and better than most American trained bigs. Both Gasols, Pekovic, Vucevic, what's his name in Toronto. Lots of skill there.

[Admin]

While I don't think Monroe is a max guy at all, Supes does have a very real point here. Monroe can't be utilized correctly in Detroit with Drummond owning the post. Whatever limited range Monroe has is doubly so for Drummond, so Drummond occupies the space and role on offense that Monroe should do for another team (i.e., a role similar to Al Jefferson) and Drummond guards the guy that Monroe should be guarding (whichever big is not the stretch guy). It is like using Teague as Woody did (as an off-the-ball jump shooter instead of a ballhandler and penetrator): when you don't put the guy in a position to succeed and he doesn't succeed don't be surprised.

The interesting thing will be whether this year damages his market value. If that is the case then we should look at him because it may result in the price being right. SA has made good use of guys who can only defend centers and who have no perimeter range over the years. If the price is max money, then forget it. But I wouldn't write him off too quickly.

I'd buy these excuses for Monroe's shooting if they didn't exist prior to to Drummond and Smoove arriving.

3-10' shooting

2011 - 17%

2012 - 27%

Career - 27%

I will give you that he had a quality defensive season in 2012 but he's been bad every other year. And now that teams employ more stretch bigs he's getting exposed. He's not good enough on offense to exploit stretch bigs and nowhere near good enough defensively to defend them.

Then you have to consider that Horford may very well be worse at PF so now we downgrade 2 positions just to replace Millsap with Monroe.

In his career Monroe has averaged 10/7 vs Horford and Horford has averaged 17/10 vs Monroe. I would much rather stick with Al as our C then overpay for this bust.

[NBASupes]

If you can't prove in 4 years that you can shoot outside of 3' then guess what... you can't shoot outside of 3'. That's a MAJOR hole in his game in the current NBA. And to add his atrocious defense on top of that he's got failure written all over his next contract.

I would (and do will multiple teams) GLADLY pay Sap 10-12 million vs the same for Monroe. Now if we are talking Monroe at 7-8 then maybe we have a discussion. But he's probably going to get some sucker to give him 15.

I know you think slowly of Monroe and highly of Millsap. I think highly of Millsap and Monroe. I just think much higher for Monroe for us. For a team like Houston, Detroit or even New York if they draft a center, I would value Sap much more than Monroe. I think Sap could be worth close to MAX for some teams but not so for US. I think some teams would gladly pay 10-12 for Sap instead of Monroe. I also think some GLADLY do it for Monroe and I see us as the MAIN one.

[AHF]

I'd buy these excuses for Monroe's shooting if they didn't exist prior to to Drummond and Smoove arriving.

3-10' shooting

2011 - 17%

2012 - 27%

Career - 27%

I will give you that he had a quality defensive season in 2012 but he's been bad every other year. And now that teams employ more stretch bigs he's getting exposed. He's not good enough on offense to exploit stretch bigs and nowhere near good enough defensively to defend them.

Then you have to consider that Horford may very well be worse at PF so now we downgrade 2 positions just to replace Millsap with Monroe.

In his career Monroe has averaged 10/7 vs Horford and Horford has averaged 17/10 vs Monroe. I would much rather stick with Al as our C then overpay for this bust.

 

It isn't an excuse for his range.  His range is very limited.  The rationale is that he can't post up near the basket a lot like he should be used because Drummond is already occupying that space.  He would look better posting up near the basket more and can't because of his usage as a result of being paired with Drummond.  Teague looks much better driving to the basket a lot than he does catching and shooting jumpers.  Monroe looks better posting up near the basket and either shooting from close in or passing to a cutter or perimeter shooter.

[NBASupes]

I think @Dolfan23 thinks I believe Monroe>Sap when I don't believe it. I think both are around the same overall, just different positions and different strengths and I feel Sap fits a lot more teams than Monroe. For us is where I am Monroe>>>Sap and he's worth every penny and more.

 

The biggest issue with the Monroe/Sap talk for me and Dolf is Horford. I see Horf as one of the best PF's in the NBA and he sees Sap as better and he doesn't think Horf will be back to last year's Horf or even better than last year's Horf like I do.

[AHF]

I am also not assuming Sap / Monroe is necessarily mutually exclusive or that we have Sap wrapped up to return if we want him.

I think @Dolfan23 thinks I believe Monroe>Sap when I don't believe it. I think both are around the same overall, just different positions and different strengths and I feel Sap fits a lot more teams than Monroe. For us is where I am Monroe>>>Sap and he's worth every penny and more.

 

The biggest issue with the Monroe/Sap talk for me and Dolf is Horford. I see Horf as one of the best PF's in the NBA and he sees Sap as better and he doesn't think Horf will be back to last year's Horf or even better than last year's Horf like I do.

 

Plus he would rather see Horf/Sap than Monroe/Horf or Monroe/Sap.

[Admin]

It isn't an excuse for his range. His range is very limited. The rationale is that he can't post up near the basket a lot like he should be used because Drummond is already occupying that space. He would look better posting up near the basket more and can't because of his usage as a result of being paired with Drummond. Teague looks much better driving to the basket a lot than he does catching and shooting jumpers. Monroe looks better posting up near the basket and either shooting from close in or passing to a cutter or perimeter shooter.

Oh no doubt if his usage 3' and in were higher his stats would be better. But we don't need a guy who's only limited to scoring from there, who has terrible footwork and instincts on defense and who would simply clog the lane to where our PGs drive. Oh and he's slow of foot getting down the court which hurts transitions on both ends.

Monroe is a good passer and rebounder but that's all I can praise him for.

[Admin]

I think @Dolfan23 thinks I believe Monroe>Sap when I don't believe it. I think both are around the same overall, just different positions and different strengths and I feel Sap fits a lot more teams than Monroe. For us is where I am Monroe>>>Sap and he's worth every penny and more.

The biggest issue with the Monroe/Sap talk for me and Dolf is Horford. I see Horf as one of the best PF's in the NBA and he sees Sap as better and he doesn't think Horf will be back to last year's Horf or even better than last year's Horf like I do.

There's evidence that Horford is worse on both ends as a PF. There's none that he's better.

And a big who can't run, defend or shoot is a terrible fit in this system on both ends.

[NBASupes]

I am also not assuming Sap / Monroe is necessarily mutually exclusive or that we have Sap wrapped up to return if we want him.

 

Plus he would rather see Horf/Sap than Monroe/Horf or Monroe/Sap.

With the cap and cap holds, for us to get Monroe, it would be at the expense of Sap.

 

I would rather see Horf/Monroe more than any other combo. 

 

Then it would be Sap/Horf which I don't like but I really don't like the idea defensively of Sap/Monroe. That is going be a below average defense. Offensively Sap or Horf and Monroe is an upgrade since they fit Monroe better than each other as Sap/Horf is redundant.

[Admin]

I am also not assuming Sap / Monroe is necessarily mutually exclusive or that we have Sap wrapped up to return if we want him.

Plus he would rather see Horf/Sap than Monroe/Horf or Monroe/Sap.

This is true. Now if you're talking signing Monroe AND Sap to reasonable contracts then I can get behind that as we could find a role for Monroe off the bench. I hate him as a starter though. Hate him even more as a replacement for Sap.

[NBASupes]

Oh no doubt if his usage 3' and in were higher his stats would be better. But we don't need a guy who's only limited to scoring from there, who has terrible footwork and instincts on defense and who would simply clog the lane to where our PGs drive. Oh and he's slow of foot getting down the court which hurts transitions on both ends.

Monroe is a good passer and rebounder but that's all I can praise him for.

Don't forget about Josh Smith at 3. Our offensive numbers dropped when Smoove played SF on a constant basis when he was here. Add the fact that Detroit is loaded with poor perimeter shooters and wings who can't penetrate and finish.

[NBASupes]

This is true. Now if you're talking signing Monroe AND Sap to reasonable contracts then I can get behind that as we could find a role for Monroe off the bench. I hate him as a starter though. Hate him even more as a replacement for Sap.

Ideally, this would be what I would like as well. Having a big 3 rotation would really help us out. Overall, I see Sap and Monroe getting a ton. I don't see Sap being worth it but I can say, for some teams, Sap is worth it. Just like I feel Monroe is for us.

[Admin]

Don't forget about Josh Smith at 3. Our offensive numbers dropped when Smoove played SF on a constant basis when he was here. Add the fact that Detroit is loaded with poor perimeter shooters and wings who can't penetrate and finish.

I addressed this above. Monroe's shooting was worse before Drummond and Smoove. If a guy can't make a basket outside of 3' then it doesn't matter who's around him as you just keep a defender on his body when he's near the basket and you can neutralize him.

[Admin]

Ideally, this would be what I would like as well. Having a big 3 rotation would really help us out. Overall, I see Sap and Monroe getting a ton. I don't see Sap being worth it but I can say, for some teams, Sap is worth it. Just like I feel Monroe is for us.

Explain to me how Monroe is a better fit for a team who requires shooters, guys who can move their feet on defense, and guys who get back on defense quickly as Monroe is awful at all of those things. Teams can put a stretch big on him and force him to defend outside of the paint and they can PnR him to death. It would be incredibly ugly.

Millsap has already shown he's the best player on this team and fits it to a T. He was Budz first choice coming here and wanted him for years. He's not going anywhere.