RealGM: Atlanta [possibly] interested in Greg Monroe [as FA in 2015]

[NBASupes]

I'm not relying on it to make my argument, I'm using it as a supplement. The point being that most talented bigs put up big numbers on Horford because he's not a top tier defensive C but even Monroe couldn't do that much against Al. 

 

And a healthy Bogut is a better player than Al. Not by the margin that I believe Al is better than Monroe but Bogut is better than Al. 

Healthy Al is clearly better than healthy Bogut. Especially when you look at adv numbers

Monroe is not as good as healthy Al. 

Monroe could be as good as Bogut. With that said, Bogut health status is worse than Al and much worse than even Brook Lopez. 

[Guest]

Yes any of those teams can scheme to force him out of the paint, to cover the PnR, to cover a stretch big. Did you not see what the Spurs did to the Thunder by putting Matt Bonner out there at C in the playoffs and forcing Perk to defend him?

Uuuhm the Spurs started Diaw at center in lieu of Splitter - c'mon son.

[NBASupes]

@Dolfan23 is a funny dude. Just admit it. You don't really have a good reason you don't like Al or Monroe. You just simply want Sap and to build around him. That would be so much easier than seeing you make these easily defended posts. Overall, I like your posts. I feel like they are reasonable and play devil advocate. I like that. Just they are too easy to knock down. It's like me with the Kevin Martin talk. It was too easy to knock it down. I had no grounds. 

[Guest]

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand - you are getting offense and rebounds from a big and not much else who you want to give a max contract.

[NBASupes]

I've said this 1000 times. There is nothing wrong with liking Sap more than Horford even if I think that's foolish. Especially this season when Al's been average on offense. Sap for his whole career has been a good to very good offensive player and an average defensive player who is great at getting steals. Sap was in the top 10 of FG% in Utah as well as 7th in Box for a season. Sap been a very good offense player and Sap been good when playing the lanes and getting steals which means a lot on defense. 

 

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/1/26/2731005/paul-millsap-advanced-stats-all-star

 

Overall, he is a good to very good player with whom I respect and like. 

 

I have no problem with you liking Sap @Dolfan23. I just completely disagree on Horford. That's all. 

[NBASupes]

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand - you are getting offense and rebounds from a big and not much else who you want to give a max contract.

Very skilled and very talented 25 year old centers are not cheap. Them and rim protectors are at a premium. 

[Admin]

Healthy Al is clearly better than healthy Bogut. Especially when you look at adv numbers

Monroe is not as good as healthy Al. 

Monroe could be as good as Bogut. With that said, Bogut health status is worse than Al and much worse than even Brook Lopez. 

 

Haha you're funny. Bogut is maybe the best passing C the league has seen in I dunno, maybe ever? He's certainly the best in the league now or damn close to it. One of his biggest traits coming into the league was his incredible passing. He can shoot from anywhere, can actually play with his back to the basket and he's a tremendous difference maker on D. 

 

Seriously this may be one of the funniest posts you've ever made. 

[Admin]

Uuuhm the Spurs started Diaw at center in lieu of Splitter - c'mon son.

 

Come on JBH RIF I didn't say they started Bonner. I said they played Bonner at C, which neutralized Perk.  He averaged about 15 mpg that series, which was far and away the most he played in the playoffs. It was a great move by Pop and was a big reason they beat the Thunder. 

[NBASupes]

Haha you're funny. Bogut is maybe the best passing C the league has seen in I dunno, maybe ever? He's certainly the best in the league now or damn close to it. One of his biggest traits coming into the league was his incredible passing. He can shoot from anywhere, can actually play with his back to the basket and he's a tremendous difference maker on D. 

 

Seriously this may be one of the funniest posts you've ever made.

Lol, this is a bad opinion. He might not even be as good as Monroe at passing. Then you got passers like Divac. J. Noah who is probably the best in the game since Divac. Even Kelly Olynk have elite passing skills. Sometimes you be on one.

 

Your hate for Horford is past foolishness. You are becoming a hater. You are at that point I was with Teague last year. I hope you snap out of it.

[Admin]

@Dolfan23 is a funny dude. Just admit it. You don't really have a good reason you don't like Al or Monroe. You just simply want Sap and to build around him. That would be so much easier than seeing you make these easily defended posts. Overall, I like your posts. I feel like they are reasonable and play devil advocate. I like that. Just they are too easy to knock down. It's like me with the Kevin Martin talk. It was too easy to knock it down. I had no grounds. 

 

Who said I don't like Al? 

 

I don't like Monroe and I've stated a dozen times at least in this thread why. You, on the other hand, have nothing but your own buzz words to try and make a player sound good. As usual you have no facts to back up your opinions. 

 

Do me a favor. Go back and read the Grantland article and tell me if that player is worth a max contract, knowing full well he can't score outside of 3' and he's on Mike Scott's level as a defender in the paint. If you still feel like he's worth that max contract, which is what it will take to sign him, then please go back and read it again until it becomes clear to you the point he and I and others are trying to make. 

[NBASupes]

Come on JBH RIF I didn't say they started Bonner. I said they played Bonner at C, which neutralized Perk.  He averaged about 15 mpg that series, which was far and away the most he played in the playoffs. It was a great move by Pop and was a big reason they beat the Thunder. 

 

Perkins gives you nothing on offense to make Pop pay for that move. You aren't fully processing anything right now. You are just being a reactionary. 

[Admin]

Lol, this is a bad opinion. He might not even be as good as Monroe at passing. Then you got passers like Divac. J. Noah who is probably the best in the game since Divac. Even Kelly Olynk have elite passing skills. Sometimes you be on one.

 

Your hate for Horford is past foolishness. You are becoming a hater. You are at that point I was with Teague last year. I hope you snap out of it. 

 

I swear I don't know why I continue with you. I am NOT talking about Al at all in this thread. I've mentioned him to show how bad Monroe is and I responded to AHF mentioning Al and Bogut. 

 

Who do I listen to, these NBA legends or NBA soup? Hmm

 

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/basketball/andrew-bogut-tying-together-golden-state-warriors-offense-in-unbeaten-start-to-season/story-e6frf3f3-1227117734888?nk=681c04f9981585c8dfe59a4db6b5b44c

Steve Kerr - “Andrew’s one of the best passing centres in the league,” Kerr said then. “He’s one of the best I’ve ever seen, and so for us to get him the ball on the elbows as a dribble-hand-off guy, back-door-pass guy, that will be emphasised.”

“And it all goes back to Bogut, one of the keys to their success on both ends. His screens, hand-offs, and passing allow Kerr to add new cool wrinkles on the offense, while his intimidating size and defensive prowess keep opponents at bay on the other side.

 

 

 

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2014/12/kevin-mchale-offers-praise-for-versatile-warriors-big-man-andrew-bogut/#27968101=0

Kevin McHale - “He’s such a gifted passer,” McHale said. “Steve (Kerr has) got him at the high post, making really nice decisions late, especially with cutters. They get so many cutters late and he’s got such great vision. They are using him with dribble handoffs and to initiate a lot of offense.

 

This was his report from 4 years ago and he's now the #1 rated defensive center in basketball.

 

Overview:A very good young center with solid skills. Good size and bulk for the center position. Could still stand to get a bit stronger. Fairly mobile with polished footwork, but not incredibly quick or explosive. Doesn’t get off the floor very well. Shows a better feel for the game than physical prowess. Very sound from the inside and outside. Fundamentally sound in almost every aspect of the game. Good coordination for his size. Had a very impressive career at Utah. Garnered MWC Player of the Year Honors as a sophomore before winning the Naismith Player of the Year Award as a junior. Has been solid in Milwaukee since day one, but hasn’t been as valuable as the first round pick the Bucks used on him. Still has the potential to continue to improve, especially with better playmakers around him.

Offense:A talented offensive player who can do a lot of damage around the rim as the Bucks primary post threat. Gets most of his offensive in post up situations, but also works off of cuts and on the offensive glass get touches. Displays tremendous touch around the rim. Capable of finishing over either shoulder, but likes to work over his right. Has all kinds of post moves, but tends to focus mainly on those that will get him room for his hook shot. Doesn’t take many jump shots despite the fact that he displayed an effective jumper before being drafted. Very coordinated for a player his size. Can put the ball on the floor, but only drives left. Great passer. Does a good job working off his teammates in the post, and will get some shots off of block to block screens. Displays a very good understanding of offensive basketball. Uses his body well. Cleans the offensive glass at a good rate, thanks to his huge hands. Hasn’t shown the midrange game that many expected him too, but is a very good player offensively nonetheless.

Defense:A decent defender who lacks the athleticism necessary to be a game changer. Will block some shots by virtue of his length and anticipation, but doesn’t have the quickness to consistently challenge shots on the weak side. Commits quite a few fouls, but it’s hard to fault him for trying to be aggressive. Fights for position, and bring a solid effort level to the defensive end. Good rebounder. Grabs every loose ball that comes his way. Very sure handed.

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3LccT32Kk

http://www.draftexpress.com

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXDn98o3Xmw

[Admin]

I've said this 1000 times. There is nothing wrong with liking Sap more than Horford even if I think that's foolish. Especially this season when Al's been average on offense. Sap for his whole career has been a good to very good offensive player and an average defensive player who is great at getting steals. Sap was in the top 10 of FG% in Utah as well as 7th in Box for a season. Sap been a very good offense player and Sap been good when playing the lanes and getting steals which means a lot on defense. 

 

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/1/26/2731005/paul-millsap-advanced-stats-all-star

 

Overall, he is a good to very good player with whom I respect and like. 

 

I have no problem with you liking Sap @Dolfan23. I just completely disagree on Horford. That's all. 

 

WTF man stop trying to turn every thread into a Horford vs Millsap thread. Seriously I'm just about done with you and close to putting you back on ignore so I don't have to put up with this nonsense. 

[NBASupes]

Who said I don't like Al? 

 

I don't like Monroe and I've stated a dozen times at least in this thread why. You, on the other hand, have nothing but your own buzz words to try and make a player sound good. As usual you have no facts to back up your opinions. 

 

Do me a favor. Go back and read the Grantland article and tell me if that player is worth a max contract, knowing full well he can't score outside of 3' and he's on Mike Scott's level as a defender in the paint. If you still feel like he's worth that max contract, which is what it will take to sign him, then please go back and read it again until it becomes clear to you the point he and I and others are trying to make. 

It's clear you don't like Al. Have you read your recent posts regarding Al this month? One star posting is be better than the blatant Al bashing that you have been on. You so as far as upgrading whoever you are comparing Al to. That's Diesel on Marvin level posting where it leaves poor logic and goes to hatred. 

 

He's a superior defender to Mike Scott in the paint. He's a superior defender to Sap in the paint in terms of guarding centers. That's a one star comment. What you meant was he's on Scott's level as a defender guarding the perimeter. Even then, it would be wrong as Scott is more agile on defense but not by much. Monroe also is much better than Scott and knowing where he should be on defense and his role on defense. Scott can get lost from time to time. Monroe simply can get sucked in due to a serious lack of lateral quickness. We know Monroe is a flawed defender. We all know that. No one is comparing him Kendrick Perkins of low post defenders but he is an upgrade in that arena. Unquestionably so. Grantland shows you what, him defending the PnR. Why would we do that if we have Horf or Payne doing it instead. 

 

I was looking at all Monroe's charts from 2010 to now. He generally gave you more production than he allowed with running mates who are backups like Maxiell or Jerebko. A lot of his issues came when Drummond came to the sense. He was giving you positive value and high performance. In his first three seasons at C, his FG% was .550, .521 and .486. The big diffence was Drummond and his move to PF because his FG% at C that 3rd year was .501 and he drew 2 more fouls a game at Center and had his defender in foul trouble. No small feat. 

[Admin]

I'm done with you. Carry on if you wish but this is the last response you'll get from me. 

[NBASupes]

I swear I don't know why I continue with you. I am NOT talking about Al at all in this thread. I've mentioned him to show how bad Monroe is and I responded to AHF mentioning Al and Bogut. 

 

Who do I listen to, these NBA legends or NBA soup? Hmm

 

 

 

This was his report from 4 years ago and he's now the #1 rated defensive center in basketball.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXDn98o3Xmw

 

No one said he wasn't a very good passer. You said he's the best passing center of all time. That's BS. He isn't close to Noah much less Divac. 

[NBASupes]

It's impossible to have a conversation when some people want to be right and they demand their right when their clearly wrong. Stalin like mindset. 

[AHF]

Anytime you go to make a Hitler / Stalin / etc., you should pause and think twice whether you really want to make that comparison.

 

On Bogut's passing, he is an excellent passer but not in the conversation for best ever big.  Guys like Divac, Sabonis, Wilt, etc. are well beyond him.  At the same price, I would definitely take Bogut over Monroe.

[Admin]

Anytime you go to make a Hitler / Stalin / etc., you should pause and think twice whether you really want to make that comparison.

 

On Bogut's passing, he is an excellent passer but not in the conversation for best ever big.  Guys like Divac, Sabonis, Wilt, etc. are well beyond him.  At the same price, I would definitely take Bogut over Monroe.

 

This is your opinion and you're welcome to it just as I am. I don't see how anyone can prove their beliefs on this one.  I can't comment on Wilt as a passer although I'd be skeptical that any big from pre 90's could compare with a modern day big man in passing. Divac was overrated as a passer because of the team he was on and Sabonis was a good passer but I don't put him above Bogut. I've been watching Bogut make passes since college and how he sees the offense flowing and knows how to set up passes and it's just remarkable.

 

And just a point of contention here, I didn't say he was absolutely THE best either. There was a problem with reading comprehension earlier in the thread. 

[Diesel]

Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good lie huh D? Go watch some of their games and talk to their fans. See how often he's slow to get down the court on both ends. Just because he's got the speed to potentially do it doesn't mean he does.

And he's slow footed with terrible instincts on D when he's anywhere outside of the paint. In the paint he's almost zero threat to block a shot. Don't give me that hogwash about rebounding being part of D. What good is rebounding when your man destroys you.

Yeah he's an amazing scorer. From 3' and in. But enjoy lapping up that FG% while ignoring where those points come from. If you can't see that it's a problem when a guy doesn't need to be defended outside of 3' then you've got no business claiming to know anything about basketball.

Funny you mention Horford when he's put up 17/11 for his career vs Monroe. I guess Monroe's terrific D wasn't able to stop a player with actual quick feet. And I believe Monroe's numbers (posted earlier in this thread) vs Horford are 10/7. Oh that's just scary good against a guy who's notorious around here for struggling with big athletic C's.

 

No lie. I can't understand how you can ignore a guy who can get his points when he wants from 3' and in.  The fact that he gets his points from there and he has spin moves, up and under moves, straight bull rushes to get him to that spot is AWESOME when you have a team full of shooters otherwise?!!?!!!!

I see the floor being wide open for him to do work 24/7 otherwise our shooters are going to have a field day.

It's like guaranteed scoring.

I guess you don't like Cousins and Randolph much either.