Danny Ferry is awesome

[Diesel]

How was I not being accurate? 2012: 6-game first round loss w/ Joe against the "4th" seed (actually 5th). 2014: 7-game first loss w/o Joe against the 1st seed. IMPROVEMENT! We've exceeded what we had when we traded Joe and we did it with much more room to improve. Now our team looks primed to exceed what we had at Joe's absolute best (based on team success), which, sadly, simply means not embarrassing themselves in the 2nd round. 

 

The trade was a win as soon as it happened. This is a universally agreed upon fact. Joe is barely a contender for a late injury replacement at the ASG and he's making $23 million. How do some people (or just you and Diesel) still want that on our team? Do you think anyone in Brooklyn is grateful that trade went down? Nets fans would trade places with us in a heartbeat. 

 

Dare you mention that Horf, Zaza, and Brick (I mean Smoove) were injured in that series (2012 Boston)?  Moreover, the Celtics had a huge surge at the end of their season and NOBODY that that we stood a chance (even with HC advantage).

[Diesel]

Agreed with this.  The teams we beat in the first round weren't really teams to boast about beating...that's why we always got killed in the second round because then the competition started to heat up and we couldn't hang with the truly legit teams.

 

Indiana as a 1 seed last year can't even be compared to some of those first round teams we previously beat.  Winning against them would have been a much larger statement if it happened - which it almost did.  Itching to see how things go this year come playoffs!

 

Let's compare apples to apples?  You said Indy as a 1 seed can't be compared to?  How about Boston in 2008?  They were not only the 1 seed, they won the championship that year and we took them to 7.  No other team, Not even the Lakers could do that in the finals.  I think that compares favorably to the Indy series.

[AUhawksfan]

Let's compare apples to apples?  You said Indy as a 1 seed can't be compared to?  How about Boston in 2008?  They were not only the 1 seed, they won the championship that year and we took them to 7.  No other team, Not even the Lakers could do that in the finals.  I think that compares favorably to the Indy series.

 

That is true, I'll concede that.  Unfortunately that was early on in the JJ era and he and the team never played near that level again throughout a whole series.  They pretty much set their ceiling against Boston.

[macdaddy]

Let's compare apples to apples?  You said Indy as a 1 seed can't be compared to?  How about Boston in 2008?  They were not only the 1 seed, they won the championship that year and we took them to 7.  No other team, Not even the Lakers could do that in the finals.  I think that compares favorably to the Indy series.

 

How does that compare?  We got blown out in all 4 of our losses against Boston and didn't take a game on the road.  There was a 12 point differential in per game points average between boston and atlanta in the series.   Last year there was a 1 point differential between Atlanta and Indy.  19 points was as close as we got to a win in Boston.   

[Diesel]

That is true, I'll concede that.  Unfortunately that was early on in the JJ era and he and the team never played near that level again throughout a whole series.  They pretty much set their ceiling against Boston.

 

I have to disagree here as well.   I think the team that Beat Orlando and played Chicago was better.   People forget how much of a monster Orlando was.

Nobody expected us to win that series.

 

Case #1.

Yahoo's take.

 

Then when we did play Orlando, being down a Hinrich, nobody thought that we could compete.   Not only did we compete, we looked good. 

I think that was our best showing in the modern era.

[Diesel]

How does that compare?  We got blown out in all 4 of our losses against Boston and didn't take a game on the road.  There was a 12 point differential in per game points average between boston and atlanta in the series.   Last year there was a 1 point differential between Atlanta and Indy.  19 points was as close as we got to a win in Boston.   

 

Boston didn't have internal problems either.  KG wasn't fighting with Allen.  There was no need for them to have a fishing trip to get their minds right.  Our team just beat them... on the court. No excuses.

[macdaddy]

I have to disagree here as well.   I think the team that Beat Orlando and played Chicago was better.   People forget how much of a monster Orlando was.

Nobody expected us to win that series.

 

Case #1.

Yahoo's take.

 

Then when we did play Orlando, being down a Hinrich, nobody thought that we could compete.   Not only did we compete, we looked good. 

I think that was our best showing in the modern era.

 

I agree with that but I'd give a lot of credit to Jamal having a great series.   Still it was a good series win and really our only really good playoff series victory in the whole Joe era.   Chicago wasn't about to let Jamal beat them though.   

[macdaddy]

Boston didn't have internal problems either.  KG wasn't fighting with Allen.  There was no need for them to have a fishing trip to get their minds right.  Our team just beat them... on the court. No excuses.

 

While it was definitely exciting it's not much of an accomplishment or even an accomplishment at all.  We got embarrassed in every game in Boston, they were never that concerned about the series, and it certainly didn't cause them to fear or respect us much in the following years.   I think Indy fears us now and that series woke up the rest of the league to what we are doing.   First year head coach without our all star.  But the proof is in the results.  We're off to a good start but losing a good first round series will be a huge disappointment this year.

[Diesel]

I agree with that but I'd give a lot of credit to Jamal having a great series.   Still it was a good series win and really our only really good playoff series victory in the whole Joe era.   Chicago wasn't about to let Jamal beat them though.   

 

People don't want to give Joe Credit.  Jamal was the right running mate with Joe.  Josh wasn't.  Joe closed out the Orlando series with a 23/10/4 showing.

[macdaddy]

People don't want to give Joe Credit.  Jamal was the right running mate with Joe.  Josh wasn't.  Joe closed out the Orlando series with a 23/10/4 showing.

 

I'm not really a fan of Jamal but he had a great series.   Joe had a good one too except for the egg he laid in one of those games.   But Joe's role was to lead us in that way and the examples of him doing it are few and far between.  Joe was a really good player for us but the results were not acceptable.   It's not all on him but certainly a lot should be.   

[benhillboy]

I'll be happy when JJ's name reaches Shareef status here: no mentions. His biggest fans couldn't even detail the good in his game as well as I could and I hated the man's guts.

We discuss Josh becuase he's a sideshow who the rest of the NBA foolishly believes could become a great player in the right situation, the NBA will not shine a light on Joe this season outside of a few buzzer beaters against mediocre teams coming in the next few weeks.

Edited December 29, 2014 by benhillboy

[AHF]

While it was definitely exciting it's not much of an accomplishment or even an accomplishment at all. We got embarrassed in every game in Boston, they were never that concerned about the series, and it certainly didn't cause them to fear or respect us much in the following years. I think Indy fears us now and that series woke up the rest of the league to what we are doing. First year head coach without our all star. But the proof is in the results. We're off to a good start but losing a good first round series will be a huge disappointment this year.

That Boston team was muuuuch better than the disintegrating Indy team we nearly beat.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

After getting off to an insane 46 - 13 start, Indiana closed the season going 10 - 13. They were playing the WORST out of all the East .. check that .. out of ALL of the playoff teams going into the postseason.

In essence, that #1 seed we were playing, was acting more like an 8 seed in the playoffs.

[JETSET]

After getting off to an insane 46 - 13 start, Indiana closed the season going 10 - 13. They were playing the WORST out of all the East .. check that .. out of ALL of the playoff teams going into the postseason.

In essence, that #1 seed we were playing, was acting more like an 8 seed in the playoffs.

I may believe you if they didnt make quick work of the wizards in the next round.

[AHF]

I may believe you if they didnt make quick work of the wizards in the next round.

 

You should believe they weren't playing very well coming into the playoffs.  They didn't resemble that 46-13 team at any time in the playoffs, including against us, the Wizards or the Heat.

[High5]

People don't want to give Joe Credit.  Jamal was the right running mate with Joe.  Josh wasn't.  Joe closed out the Orlando series with a 23/10/4 showing.

 

He was 2-12 with 5 points the game before that. He had 6 turnovers to 1 assist while shooting 40% the game before that. He needed 23 shots to score 21 points the game before that. And then he managed 14 points on 6-15 shooting with 5 turnovers the game before that. That series was his shining accomplishment as the leader of the Hawks and he was straight up bad through more than half of it. There's your superstar. Plus we were still outscored overall with their shooters being ice cold.

 

For the record, I hate that you and North make me bad talk the guy. I always liked him and he was responsible for some great memories. But you guys go to great lengths romanticizing the past just to push that anti-Ferry agenda. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'll be happy when JJ's name reaches Shareef status here: no mentions. His biggest fans couldn't even detail the good in his game as well as I could and I hated the man's guts.

We discuss Josh becuase he's a sideshow who the rest of the NBA foolishly believes could become a great player in the right situation, the NBA will not shine a light on Joe this season outside of a few buzzer beaters against mediocre teams coming in the next few weeks.

Awwwww. Too bad that will never happen. I take that back. If this franchise starts winning championships or start being a perennial participant in multiple EC Finals, it might happen.

Until then, JJ will belong in the same category as guys like Lou Hudson and Steve Smith, as one of the great guards this franchise has ever had.

5 playoff appearances

5 All-Star selections

... as a member of the Hawks

Only 2 other players since the Hawks have been in Atlanta, can say this.

Lou Hudson

&

Dominique Wilkins

Edited December 30, 2014 by TheNorthCydeRises

[TheNorthCydeRises]

He was 2-12 with 5 points the game before that. He had 6 turnovers to 1 assist while shooting 40% the game before that. He needed 23 shots to score 21 points the game before that. And then he managed 14 points on 6-15 shooting with 5 turnovers the game before that. That series was his shining accomplishment as the leader of the Hawks and he was straight up bad through more than half of it. There's your superstar. Plus we were still outscored overall with their shooters being ice cold.

 

For the record, I hate that you and North make me bad talk the guy. I always liked him and he was responsible for some great memories. But you guys go to great lengths romanticizing the past just to push that anti-Ferry agenda. 

 

No one is making you bad talk the guy.  You're doing this on your own.  Willingly, I may add.

 

 

In the Orlando series in 2011 . . . JJ was

 

- Absolutely stellar in Game 1

 

- Didn't help Jamal nearly enough in Game 2

 

- Scored 17 1st half points to give the Hawks a 9 point lead at halftime . . in Game 3 . . ( I was at that game.  And I had Jamal's bank shot game sealing 3 pointer on video at one time )

 

- Scored the final 10 points for the Hawks in Game 4, to hold off the Magic, and take a 3 - 1 lead in the series

 

- Stunk it up big time, along with the rest of the team . .outside of Josh Smith . . in Game 5.

 

- became a volume shooter, along with Jamal, but they did just enough scoring to get us the win in Game 6.

 

 

 

In that series, the Hawks DID NOT WIN, unless JJ scored 20 points or more.   In the 2 games he didn't reach that mark, the Hawks lost.

 

The same would ring true in the following series.  When JJ reached 20 or more, the Hawks won.  When he didn't, they lost.

 

If we all can admit that JJ wasn't a superstar, can we also admit that he didn't have enough help when we needed it the most, to elevate the Hawks further in the playoffs?

 

 

Don't blame Diesel and I for looking at the good things that group did.  Blame yourselves for wanting to downplay what little they did do, so that you can prop up King Exile.

 

 

If and when these current group of Hawks reaches the same level or above what the JJ led Hawks did, I'll gladly give them their props, along with your King.

 

Until then, Bud gets all of the praise, as well as the players who are balling right now.

[High5]

The funny thing about my "king": I didn't like the hire when it was announced and I have never once called him a great GM. I just believe in giving people a fair shake before I write them off and I speak up when I read things like this:

 

Until then, Bud gets all of the praise, as well as the players who are balling right now.

 

I mean, what? Ferry doesn't deserve any praise -- only the coach he hired and the players he acquired. That couldn't make less sense. Yeah... I think we're finished here. 

Edited December 30, 2014 by High5

[Diesel]

He was 2-12 with 5 points the game before that. He had 6 turnovers to 1 assist while shooting 40% the game before that. He needed 23 shots to score 21 points the game before that. And then he managed 14 points on 6-15 shooting with 5 turnovers the game before that. That series was his shining accomplishment as the leader of the Hawks and he was straight up bad through more than half of it. There's your superstar. Plus we were still outscored overall with their shooters being ice cold.

 

For the record, I hate that you and North make me bad talk the guy. I always liked him and he was responsible for some great memories. But you guys go to great lengths romanticizing the past just to push that anti-Ferry agenda. 

 

You can bad talk him all you want.   The bottom line is that WE won the series.  We won it with a very flawed team.  We went into the next series and were competitive against the League MVP.  That with a flawed team.  Now, I have been a Hawks fan for years.  However, who do you we have to romanticize??    After Petit and Nique who has done more for the Hawks than Joe?  I love Smitty but Smitty never went past the 2nd round. Our best team under Lenny was the team that traded Nique away. We lost to the Pacers.  They closed us out in our arena by beating us by almost 20 and they had more fans in the Omni than we did.  Are we supposed to romanticize that??  With Danny Manning playing half heartedly?  How about us with Deke, Smitty, and Mookie getting swept out  of the second round by the Knicks?  Smitty shot 27%, Mookie shot 31% and Deke shot 38% for the series?  I mean, if you want to be critical...  So, with the droughts that we have had in our "big moments"... Joe wasn't perfect, but I dare say that Joe took us farther than any other star player we have had has taken us since NIQUE.