Why some on here think Payne will be a flop?

[NBASupes]

Payne will (eventually) be a combination of Pero's shooting and Brand's length on defense. He'll board better than either of them. Give the kid some time, he'll be nasty off the bench for us in a few years, perhaps overtaking Sap and moving him to the 6th man when he starts slowing down.

He's not a center, he is gets bodied by PF's. 

[MaceCase]

Draft slot I think is important there.  He was only 1 spot away from a lottery pick and our highest pick since 2007 when we drafted Horford.  That definitely plays into the expectations, IMO, particularly for people who see us having a need for more rebounding and our #15 pick PF/C racking up DNP-CDs.  

Again, I'll call bullocks here.  The late lotto is already that "no mans land" that particularly tank crews refuse to be in as far as acquiring talent so I don't see how or why being one selection further out from that area would be looked at as a positive.  I also don't see how #15 would be looked at as being in a different tier than #s 16, 17, and 19 in terms of expectations to really be serious about throwing that "highest pick since" qualifier.....less of course, your desire is to be overly critical of the selection or fanaticism has merged with pedanticism while I napped.

[TheFuzz]

He's not a center, he is gets bodied by PF's. 

 

I do worry about his weight, which will prevent him from guarding Cs the way Antić and Brand can. I think his length and athleticism will make him adequate there, especially considering there aren't a ton of Cs that worry me. His shot and length will be Brand/Antić esque, perhaps better than both. If he can't put on some strength though, I agree he won't be a full-time C for us.

[AHF]

Again, I'll call bullocks here.  The late lotto is already that "no mans land" that particularly tank crews refuse to be in as far as acquiring talent so I don't see how or why being one selection further out from that area would be looked at as a positive.  I also don't see how #15 would be looked at as being in a different tier than #s 16, 17, and 19 in terms of expectations to really be serious about throwing that "highest pick since" qualifier.....less of course, your desire is to be overly critical of the selection or fanaticism has merged with pedanticism while I napped.

 

I agree that you aren't looking at a different tier than 16, 17, 19.  You had mentioned simply a first round pick in your last post and I think there is a real difference between #15 and a pick in the 20's or 30's as far as perception.  I do absolutely agree with that post about Jenkins and Bebe being rolled in with Payne's lack of productivity to date by people jumping on the pick (and some of those people lumped Dennis in earlier this year before he started really showing too).  Prior to Ferry, some of our best picks came from that range as well, Teague and Josh chief among them.  Either way, I think it is way premature to come to a conclusion on the pick.  Payne could bust ala Jenkins or bloom ala Dennis.  Time will tell.

[MrMeltdown]

He was always a bad pick.

[NBASupes]

I do worry about his weight, which will prevent him from guarding Cs the way Antić and Brand can. I think his length and athleticism will make him adequate there, especially considering there aren't a ton of Cs that worry me. His shot and length will be Brand/Antić esque, perhaps better than both. If he can't put on some strength though, I agree he won't be a full-time C for us.

He's not a center. Have you even watched him play? He's as much a center as Millsap.

[lethalweapon3]

I didn't exactly dig to see if it was mentioned elsewhere, but Payne's back on-board for this road trip.

 

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~lw3

[Guest]

Hopefully he gets a little PT.

[TheFuzz]

He's not a center. Have you even watched him play? He's as much a center as Millsap.

 

I've watched him play plenty. I know you'll just say I don't know what I'm talking about cuz you're a scout or something, but, IMO, he can play C in the same vein as someone like Horford or Davis. Obviously not as good, but I see few centers out there that he physically simply can't handle. Yes, he has a high center of gravity and small hips, so does Horford to some degree. He can potentially defend in space very well with his hops and wingspan. I don't think he's a full-time C, but I think he can play 15 minutes a game there.

 

Agree to disagree if you must, but don't passive-aggressively accuse me of not watching him play, especially when this is something we have ZERO sample size over. I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

[gsuteke]

I thought Schröder was a complete bust his first year and he's coming around. I have total faith in Ferry.

[kurupt]

For my analysis i refer to my SL post about Payne.

 

I haven´t seen him play since, but his FG% looks better at 48% right now. But I don´t think he will improve a lot from here. People treat him like a young, developing player. But he has played four years in College, he will be 24 years old in a month. I think he is what he is as a player.

[Guest]

For my analysis i refer to my SL post about Payne.

I haven´t seen him play since, but his FG% looks better at 48% right now. But I don´t think he will improve a lot from here. People treat him like a young, developing player. But he has played four years in College, he will be 24 years old in a month. I think he is what he is as a player.

He is what he is? Smh.

Tell that to DMC and especially KK. He is doing stuff now he didn't do throughout his career and he's now closer to the end of his career than before.

Look at even Millsap from 2nd round pick to Allstar to developing a 3 pt shot.

Stop talking in absolutes. Payne has played in one NBA game. So we have no idea what he can be.

[NBASupes]

I've watched him play plenty. I know you'll just say I don't know what I'm talking about cuz you're a scout or something, but, IMO, he can play C in the same vein as someone like Horford or Davis. Obviously not as good, but I see few centers out there that he physically simply can't handle. Yes, he has a high center of gravity and small hips, so does Horford to some degree. He can potentially defend in space very well with his hops and wingspan. I don't think he's a full-time C, but I think he can play 15 minutes a game there.

 

Agree to disagree if you must, but don't passive-aggressively accuse me of not watching him play, especially when this is something we have ZERO sample size over. I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Comparing Horford and Davis to Payne is wishful thinking at it's best. Both of those players are very good defensive players, Payne isn't and likely won't be either. Payne has average strength for his position. Horf at PF has great strength and average strength for a center. Davis has decent strength for a PF and has no business at C and New Orleans doesn't use him at center much anymore. I think your idea of him playing center is blocking shots. If that's the case, Ibaka is a center as well. I honestly don't agree with you. This passive-aggressive nonsense you are saying is foolish when we have games of him LIVE with the Austin Spurs and FW team. To me, you are doing the most and saying the least. He's not a Center. He's an PF. Wingspan won't change that. If that's the case, Sap should be playing center. His wingspan is 7'1 compared to Al's 7ft wingspan. 

[NBASupes]

He is what he is? Smh.

Tell that to DMC and especially KK. He is doing stuff now he didn't do throughout his career and he's now closer to the end of his career than before.

Look at even Millsap from 2nd round pick to Allstar to developing a 3 pt shot.

Stop talking in absolutes. Payne has played in one NBA game. So we have no idea what he can be.

Let's be real, Sap was much more productive than Payne as a rookie and was 21 as well. Payne turns 24 next month. It's fair to say Payne isn't living up to expectations. Even in the D League, his averages aren't mind-blowing for someone on a NBA roster. He far less productive than Marcus Fizer was at this stage. Maybe my Marcus Fizer projections was too much for Payne. 

[Guest]

Let's be real, Sap was much more productive than Payne as a rookie and was 21 as well. Payne turns 24 next month. It's fair to say Payne isn't living up to expectations. Even in the D League, his averages aren't mind-blowing for someone on a NBA roster. He far less productive than Marcus Fizer was at this stage. Maybe my Marcus Fizer projections was too much for Payne.

You want real - until he plays meaningful minutes in actual NBA games its ALL pointless. DL and SL stars mean squat to me. Let's discuss then.

DMC was drafted at the same age as Payne,

Payne can't sniff an NBA court because of who is infront of him.

[Guest]

Let's be real, Sap was much more productive than Payne as a rookie and was 21 as well. Payne turns 24 next month. It's fair to say Payne isn't living up to expectations. Even in the D League, his averages aren't mind-blowing for someone on a NBA roster. He far less productive than Marcus Fizer was at this stage. Maybe my Marcus Fizer projections was too much for Payne.

My point was not about productivity (since Payne has not played) it's about talking in absolutes about what a player can become or not, what they can improve on or not. The just don't like the idea of writing off rookies regardless of age until they've actually played.

[NBASupes]

You want real - until he plays meaningful minutes in actual NBA games its ALL pointless. DL and SL stars mean squat to me. Let's discuss then.

DMC was drafted at the same age as Payne,

Payne can't sniff an NBA court because of who is infront of him.

How does the D-League mean squat? It's a development league. It means a lot if you can't dominate in that league when you have superior talent. Dennis looked like a superstar in the D-league. Jenkins looks like stud in the D-league and shows many of the things you see when he does get PT in the NBA as well as the flaws why he doesn't fit as well. Saying the D-league doesn't mean squat is flawed thinking. If you want to say, you want to see him perform in the NBA, that's different but even then, his play in the DL matters. 

 

Let's be honest, he really hasn't shown he deserves PT. Mike Scott doesn't defend and all he can do is score. There is room for PT, if he was worthy, he would get it. Bud is known to give everyone a FAIR chance. 

[TheFuzz]

We'll see Supes, but I've been right (and wrong) about this stuff before. Perhaps the passive-aggressive comment was unnecessary and I apologize if so, but honestly dude I've seen you explode on people a few too many times for my liking and I was trying to stop that before happened.

[Guest]

We'll see Supes, but I've been right (and wrong) about this stuff before. Perhaps the passive-aggressive comment was unnecessary and I apologize if so, but honestly dude I've seen you explode on people a few too many times for my liking and I was trying to stop that before happened.

@TheFuzz no worries I can handle Supes, :-).

[NBASupes]

We'll see Supes, but I've been right (and wrong) about this stuff before. Perhaps the passive-aggressive comment was unnecessary and I apologize if so, but honestly dude I've seen you explode on people a few too many times for my liking and I was trying to stop that before happened.

Thanks, I appreciate that. 

@TheFuzz no worries I can handle Supes, :-).

O RLY