Which Former Hawks would you allow to come back and retire a Hawk?

[Admin]

Deke I can understand.  Joe?  Nah...  He was just quiet.  He had some words about the lack of fan support...something like he didn't care what the fans thought or something, but Joe played his heart out for us.  And he came here to make something happen.  

 

He made the choice to leave a contender in the West to a lottery team in the East...and he did it while also saying how much he wanted to help this team out.  I got no hate for Joe and he's one of my favorite Hawks behind Nique and Mookie.

I really don't see how you can say he didn't give a crap about the team...

 

Because I never felt like he cared about the team. Both times he got as much $$ as he possibly could from Atlanta and that's why I believe he never really cared about the team since he put himself first. Plus that nonsense with the fans in the playoffs. I don't care who you are but you don't disrespect the people who essentially pay your check. 

 

Now I have no "hate" for Joe, just no love. The only former Hawk that I "hate" is JT.

[macdaddy]

Because I never felt like he cared about the team. Both times he got as much $$ as he possibly could from Atlanta and that's why I believe he never really cared about the team since he put himself first. Plus that nonsense with the fans in the playoffs. I don't care who you are but you don't disrespect the people who essentially pay your check. 

 

Now I have no "hate" for Joe, just no love. The only former Hawk that I "hate" is JT.

 

I feel the same about Joe.   I guess I don't remember JT's comments as being that harsh.   

[Wretch]

Because I never felt like he cared about the team. Both times he got as much $$ as he possibly could from Atlanta and that's why I believe he never really cared about the team since he put himself first. Plus that nonsense with the fans in the playoffs. I don't care who you are but you don't disrespect the people who essentially pay your check. 

 

Now I have no "hate" for Joe, just no love. The only former Hawk that I "hate" is JT.

 

How can you look at his first contract like that?  He's a pro athlete. He was young, he wanted to prove himself...and the market for him was a max contract.  Even Phoenix said they would match any offer for him, up to the max.  They may have been bluffing a little to drive up his trade value, but Joe wanted out and he chose to come here...to a terrible situation.  He actually wanted to come here and he WANTED to do good things.  I'm sorry man, but I just don't see your case there.  Not at all.

 

The second contract, I can understand a little...  But what was he supposed to say, "Naw man, don't pay me all that money." lol  There was no negotiation, no talk, no nada.  That contract was in his hands at like...the stroke of midnight on signing day.  Even if he or his agent were pressing for money, that's business.  I still don't see any reason to knock him or his dedication to the team.

 

I agree 100% about JT.  Total lack of concern/respect for us after he left.

[Admin]

How can you look at his first contract like that?  He's a pro athlete. He was young, he wanted to prove himself...and the market for him was a max contract.  Even Phoenix said they would match any offer for him, up to the max.  They may have been bluffing a little to drive up his trade value, but Joe wanted out and he chose to come here...to a terrible situation.  He actually wanted to come here and he WANTED to do good things.  I'm sorry man, but I just don't see your case there.  Not at all.

 

The second contract, I can understand a little...  But what was he supposed to say, "Naw man, don't pay me all that money." lol  There was no negotiation, no talk, no nada.  That contract was in his hands at like...the stroke of midnight on signing day.  Even if he or his agent were pressing for money, that's business.  I still don't see any reason to knock him or his dedication to the team.

 

I agree 100% about JT.  Total lack of concern/respect for us after he left.

 

I just don't buy that Joe wanted to come here that bad. I think he wanted to get paid and he wanted to be the #1 option no matter what. 

 

I'm sure there was plenty of negotiating before the 2nd contract was signed. Our management are stupid but I gotta believe they knew the only way to keep him was to sign him to that ridiculous contract. 

 

At least we agree on something, for once :)

[macdaddy]

How can you look at his first contract like that?  He's a pro athlete. He was young, he wanted to prove himself...and the market for him was a max contract.  Even Phoenix said they would match any offer for him, up to the max.  They may have been bluffing a little to drive up his trade value, but Joe wanted out and he chose to come here...to a terrible situation.  He actually wanted to come here and he WANTED to do good things.  I'm sorry man, but I just don't see your case there.  Not at all.

 

The second contract, I can understand a little...  But what was he supposed to say, "Naw man, don't pay me all that money." lol  There was no negotiation, no talk, no nada.  That contract was in his hands at like...the stroke of midnight on signing day.  Even if he or his agent were pressing for money, that's business.  I still don't see any reason to knock him or his dedication to the team.

 

I agree 100% about JT.  Total lack of concern/respect for us after he left.

 

That's not how i remember his second contract.  Most thought he wouldn't sign here and he was rumored to be teaming up with the other big free agents.   Seems like everywhere the hawks played before he signed back he talked about how great it would be to play in <insert city name here>.     This is my recollection which might not be accurate.   But there again if the Hawks didn't think he had one foot out the door then why throw down a max offer at midnight.

[Wretch]

That's not how i remember his second contract.  Most thought he wouldn't sign here and he was rumored to be teaming up with the other big free agents.   Seems like everywhere the hawks played before he signed back he talked about how great it would be to play in <insert city name here>.     This is my recollection which might not be accurate.   But there again if the Hawks didn't think he had one foot out the door then why throw down a max offer at midnight.

 

A lot of times people judge players/teams in hindsight and don't give it an objective look in the context of the time.  Case in point: Billy Knight.  Everybody hates Knight right now and rightfully so, but in doing so...people overlook the context of his decisions at the time and even the fan reactions to what he was doing.  

 

Everyone was excited when we dumped all those players and started from nothing.  They were praising BK like he was this awesome GM that had just done the impossible.  I was telling folks to calm down and that clearing a team out wasn't all that skillful.  Let people tell it now, BK was a problem from day one.  

 

Same with Marvin.  The board was pretty much split about 80/20 in favor of Bogut vs. a PG.  Nobody cried when we selected Marvin.  He was pretty much the consensus #2 talent behind Bogut, but that we should have traded down or moved one of our forwards.  However, nobody questioned Marvin's potential (Except for Diesel like...2 years later.  I'll never forget that first post...).  Though, you let the Squawk tell it today...everybody was up in arms when we drafted Marv.

 

The same is kind of happening with Joe.  The way I remember the time, there were a few teams interested in Joe...and rightfully so.  He was a big 2 guard that could do a lot of things.  Right off the bat, I remember NY being really high on him were they to strike out on LeBron.  Is that Joe's fault though for being good and being coveted?  Even still, I don't recall Joe making much fuss about it.  What I remember is how it was pretty much a given that he was staying put, that our max would trump anything that any other team could put on the table, that we REALLY wanted to keep him, that we had no intention of letting another team outbid us, and that he wanted to be in ATL.

 

I just don't remember this demanding, greedy, selfish, indifferent, uncaring ass-hat that some of you guys are trying to remember him for.  That's not the Joe that I remember at all...

 

"When the free agency period kicked in, Joe made a point of talking to the Hawks first," Tellem wrote in the blog post. "Their owners and new coach, Larry Drew, impressed Joe with their commitment to making the team championship-caliber. In turn, Joe felt equally committed to the Hawks, his teammates and the city of Atlanta."

 

Tellem said Johnson, who was wooed by a number of other teams, could have forced a sign-and-trade to another team, but "decided that winning in Atlanta would be more meaningful."

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5354426

[macdaddy]

A lot of times people judge players/teams in hindsight and don't give it an objective look in the context of the time.  Case in point: Billy Knight.  Everybody hates Knight right now and rightfully so, but in doing so...people overlook the context of his decisions at the time and even the fan reactions to what he was doing.  

 

Everyone was excited when we dumped all those players and started from nothing.  They were praising BK like he was this awesome GM that had just done the impossible.  I was telling folks to calm down and that clearing a team out wasn't all that skillful.  Let people tell it now, BK was a problem from day one.  

 

Same with Marvin.  The board was pretty much split about 80/20 in favor of Bogut vs. a PG.  Nobody cried when we selected Marvin.  He was pretty much the consensus #2 talent behind Bogut, but that we should have traded down or moved one of our forwards.  However, nobody questioned Marvin's potential (Except for Diesel like...2 years later.  I'll never forget that first post...).  Though, you let the Squawk tell it today...everybody was up in arms when we drafted Marv.

 

The same is kind of happening with Joe.  The way I remember the time, there were a few teams interested in Joe...and rightfully so.  He was a big 2 guard that could do a lot of things.  Right off the bat, I remember NY being really high on him were they to strike out on LeBron.  Is that Joe's fault though for being good and being coveted?  Even still, I don't recall Joe making much fuss about it.  What I remember is how it was pretty much a given that he was staying put, that our max would trump anything that any other team could put on the table, that we REALLY wanted to keep him, that we had no intention of letting another team outbid us, and that he wanted to be in ATL.

 

I just don't remember this demanding, greedy, selfish, indifferent, uncaring ass-hat that some of you guys are trying to remember him for.  That's not the Joe that I remember at all...

 

 

I don't think that about Joe either.  Just that he wasn't interested in being the face of the franchise even though he was and as he famously said didn't really care that much what the fans thought.   Here is some interesting reading that supports a little of both of our thoughts on joe

 

 

 

There definitely is something to be said for practicing where you play. Just ask Joe Johnson. And the Knicks.

In 2010, the biggest prize was LeBron James, but the free-agent class that summer was crammed with stars of every sort — including Johnson, who eventually returned to Atlanta with a massive six-year, $123.7 million contract.

But he did so only after a flirtation with the Knicks.

“Almost. Almost,” Johnson recalled of the Knicks’ contention. “The Knicks were the first team I met with.”

But the prospect of needing two homes snuffed the courtship.

Johnson met with then-coach Mike D’Antoni, assistant general manager Allan Houston and owner James Dolan.

“We all met and talked and they had a great presentation. It was impressive. You know what threw me off more than anything?” Johnson asked. “Obviously there was the money difference, but they said, ‘You needed a place in Westchester and you needed a place in the city.’ They said you would roughly spend like $5 million.

“I was like, ‘aw, no,’ as opposed to being in Atlanta where I was already established with a solid team that was getting better every year. And I didn’t have to buy nothing or make any changes, and we had the arena and the practice facility in one place. It took me roughly 20 minutes with traffic to get there. Oh no. So then I never even imagined being in New York.”

D’Antoni, who had coached Johnson in Phoenix — “He was my guy,” Johnson said — laughed when he heard the seven-time All-Star’s assessment.

“I don’t know if we told him that,” D’Antoni said. “But he could afford it anyway. Obviously he made his choice, and for Atlanta, he was great.”

 

http://nypost.com/2014/11/15/brooklyn-star-joe-johnson-was-nearly-a-knick/

[pimp]

Including Joe.

Sheed!

[Wretch]

I don't think that about Joe either.  Just that he wasn't interested in being the face of the franchise even though he was and as he famously said didn't really care that much what the fans thought.   Here is some interesting reading that supports a little of both of our thoughts on joe

 

 

 

http://nypost.com/2014/11/15/brooklyn-star-joe-johnson-was-nearly-a-knick/

 

Am I missing something or is this no different than what any other top NBA free agent does?  Of course there was speculation about him teaming up with other stars (and I'm sure Amare made some calls to JJ), but it was nothing like LeBron/Wade/Bosh-gate.  That's what free agents do right?  Weigh their options?  I don't see how this reflects negatively on JJ.  He was a free agent.  What were we expecting? Of course the money played into it.  Nobody doubts that.  At the same time, Joe didn't make a big fuss about money or his free agency.

 

As far as him not wanting to be the face of the franchise...  I don't know if that's really a conversation.  When he asked Phoenix to let him go, that's EXACTLY what he wanted to be - the centerpiece to a rebuilding franchise.  Those were his words and I could find the articles if I had time.  He wanted a big deal and he wanted to prove himself...again, I don't see how people could hold that against a coveted pro athlete free agent.

 

Once Joe got settled in here, there was less of that talk more of him going out there doing his job.  Face of the franchise or cornerstone or franchise player...I honestly don't think the labels mattered to him at all.  Joe never said much.  He just went out and played his game.  I think the disappointment of our performance as a team, his contract, and Woody-ball, made more of an issue out of Joe than anything.  He did say something about "I don't care what the fans think"...and it may have even been "we don't care what the fans think", but it was just in response to playing the game and trying to win in the face of criticism.  

 

I didn't consider his comments a dis...he was saying he had a job to do and it didn't matter how much he got paid or what the fans said.  Otherwise, we're taking Joe's comments and putting them in the context of how Josh Smith acted the other night.  Two totally different things IMO.

 

Bottom line for me...if you guys want to say Joe wasn't vocal enough or didn't openly take more responsibility for our team I can understand.  A little.  I can also understand the criticism of his game in light of his contract - although, I don't think anybody in here would have turned that money down or have been any more classy and quiet about how it went down (if he was demanding it).  I just don't see a reason to put JJ in the category with the likes of JT, Deke, Josh, and even Doc when it comes to distancing themselves (or being distanced by the fans) from the franchise.

 

I'm not a JJ apologist and I'm not upset that we moved him.  I'm just not going to forget what kind of player he was and how he came to us in the first place.

[AHF]

I think when the careers of JJ, Josh and Zaza are done they will be Hawks in the memories of fans.  Nothing they do elsewhere will compare with what they did here.  JJ has been fine since he was traded.  Josh has been like a bitter ex - upset that Ferry let him walk and picked up a hotter replacement but I leave open the opportunity for a reconciliation.  Zaza is the one who we let get away.  I am fine with any of those guys retiring as Hawks if they want to return here and fit the program.  Josh seems like the guy who is hard to envision fitting onto a Bud roster, but bit parts for JJ and Zaza are easy for me to picture.

[Diesel]

I just don't buy that Joe wanted to come here that bad. I think he wanted to get paid and he wanted to be the #1 option no matter what. 

 

I'm sure there was plenty of negotiating before the 2nd contract was signed. Our management are stupid but I gotta believe they knew the only way to keep him was to sign him to that ridiculous contract. 

 

At least we agree on something, for once

 

It's been documented.  Joe could have gone to Milwaukee.  They wanted him. They had the money.  Instead, he waited for us to get over the Belkin holdup and signed with us.

[willthepureshooter]

Because he didn't give a crap about the team or the fans. I know you're his biggest fan but even you can't say that he cared about the fans here. Honestly I would put Deke in that category as well as he's considered himself a Rocket post-retirement.

Sounds like an enormous reach.. He loved the fans that cheered for the Home team, but not the transplant fans that rooted for visiting teams.

[Admin]

Sounds like an enormous reach.. He loved the fans that cheered for the Home team, but not the transplant fans that rooted for visiting teams.

 

Joe loved the fans? I don't ever recall him acting like he loved any fans. Not in Phoenix, not in Atlanta, not in Brooklyn. Joe loves Joe, fancy rides, $$ and bitches. That's it. 

[willthepureshooter]

Joe loved the fans? I don't ever recall him acting like he loved any fans. Not in Phoenix, not in Atlanta, not in Brooklyn. Joe loves Joe, fancy rides, $$ and bitches. That's it.

Joe Johnson always gave back to the community. I know Mario West's assistant and sparring partner and he talked highly of Joe Johnson. Matter of fact, even players like Josh Smith also gave back to the community every year. Sounds like you have a personal problem with Joe.

http://m.ajc.com/gallery/lifestyles/holiday/joe-johnson-charity/g2dd/

[Admin]

Joe Johnson always gave back to the community. I know Mario West's assistant and sparring partner and he talked highly of Joe Johnson. Matter of fact, even players like Josh Smith also gave back to the community every year. Sounds like you have a personal problem with Joe.

http://m.ajc.com/gallery/lifestyles/holiday/joe-johnson-charity/g2dd/

 

I don't have a personal problem with Joe. I don't care about Joe either way and what he did in terms of charity and giving back to the community have nothing to do with him loving the team or fans or anything like that. Some guys you know are proud to play for a team and he's just not the type of guy who I believe ever cared about being a Hawk. Compare that with Nique, who was devastated to be traded by the Hawks and remains a loyal fan today. There's absolutely no comparison in terms of them being Hawks. 

[willthepureshooter]

I don't have a personal problem with Joe. I don't care about Joe either way and what he did in terms of charity and giving back to the community have nothing to do with him loving the team or fans or anything like that. Some guys you know are proud to play for a team and he's just not the type of guy who I believe ever cared about being a Hawk. Compare that with Nique, who was devastated to be traded by the Hawks and remains a loyal fan today. There's absolutely no comparison in terms of them being Hawks.

Dude, I digress.. Smh

[Wretch]

I don't have a personal problem with Joe. I don't care about Joe either way and what he did in terms of charity and giving back to the community have nothing to do with him loving the team or fans or anything like that. Some guys you know are proud to play for a team and he's just not the type of guy who I believe ever cared about being a Hawk. Compare that with Nique, who was devastated to be traded by the Hawks and remains a loyal fan today. There's absolutely no comparison in terms of them being Hawks. 

 

Dolfan...I'm really not following you on the whole "loves his bitches and bling" thing.  Joe?  

 

Yeah, he's a millionaire and bought shit...

 

 

...but how is that different from any other baller buying things they like?  He never talked about money or contracts...and he didn't complain.  I don't remember him clubbing or throwing money at strippers.  The Joe I remember didn't say much of nothing.  

 

Where are you getting all this stuff from?  Is it all because he signed that ridiculous deal?

[Admin]

Dolfan...I'm really not following you on the whole "loves his bitches and bling" thing.  Joe?  

 

Yeah, he's a millionaire and bought shit...

 

 

...but how is that different from any other baller buying things they like?  He never talked about money or contracts...and he didn't complain.  I don't remember him clubbing or throwing money at strippers.  The Joe I remember didn't say much of nothing.  

 

Where are you getting all this stuff from?  Is it all because he signed that ridiculous deal?

 

Getting all what stuff from? I never said he was a bad guy. Just said I don't care about him either way and that I don't think he cared about being a Hawk or cared about the fans. It's just how I feel and you guys are welcome to feel how you want about him. 

[Wretch]

Getting all what stuff from? I never said he was a bad guy. Just said I don't care about him either way and that I don't think he cared about being a Hawk or cared about the fans. It's just how I feel and you guys are welcome to feel how you want about him. 

 

Joe loved the fans? I don't ever recall him acting like he loved any fans. Not in Phoenix, not in Atlanta, not in Brooklyn. Joe loves Joe, fancy rides, $$ and bitches. That's it. 

 

 

Well......what are we talking about Dolf?  You said Joe wasn't a true Hawk.  He didn't care about the fans or the team.  All he cared about was himself and money...and bitches.  That there is the very definition of an asshat athlete - a bad person.

 

He didn't bow to the crowd or kiss babies before every game, but when the fans got behind him....he fed off that energy and played with passion.  He played hard, never complained, never talked about himself, never gave the coach or his teammates shit...  He never talked about money or contracts.  I never heard of him wooing the women and the only car I've ever seen him in is that big ass F150.

 

JJ was a quiet dude, looking for a place to prove himself, that chose a lowly rebuilding franchise...and he did nothing but work his ass off for us.  I understand you don't care for him, but the image you paint of him is just not Joe at all.  

[FrankWhite]

I have no ill will towards Joe. He was a good player for us, and by all accounts a class act. The problem was we paid him to be our go to guy, the leader of our team, and he was simply not that guy. He's going to be remembered as a poster boy for bad contracts instead of what he should've been, the second or third best player on a contender. Which is too bad, and not his fault, just a symptom of a badly run organization, desperate for some kind of capital that reached for a non-star "star."