SI Lee Jenkins article on Atlanta Hawks

[Diesel]

I'm already seeing our resident trolls read into this article as if it is fact. It's not meant that way. This is Lee Jenkins telling a story and not Lee Jenkins detailing the events surrounding the Hawks.

The biggest way you can figure this out from the article is that Lee says Al Horford is from Michigan. No. He's not. He spent 3 years in Grand Ledge, which is the same amount of time he spent in Gainesville (http://www.nba.com/enebea/blog/al_horford_en.html).

But if Lee was accurate, then his snippet about "the Hawks’ starting five represent America’s heartland: Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Louisiana and Alabama" would have to be changed. Hell, Horford isn't even an American. To have such a nice free-flowing article you have to be liberal with accuracies and Jenkins is certainly doing that.

But sure, let's go overboard and ruin conversations about this article by changing this thread to be about every other f***ing thread on this board. Danny-Bud-Statue-A$G-New Owners.

 

[HawkItus]

I'm already seeing our resident trolls read into this article as if it is fact. It's not meant that way. This is Lee Jenkins telling a story and not Lee Jenkins detailing the events surrounding the Hawks.

The biggest way you can figure this out from the article is that Lee says Al Horford is from Michigan. No. He's not. He spent 3 years in Grand Ledge, which is the same amount of time he spent in Gainesville (http://www.nba.com/enebea/blog/al_horford_en.html).

But if Lee was accurate, then his snippet about "the Hawks’ starting five represent America’s heartland: Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Louisiana and Alabama" would have to be changed. Hell, Horford isn't even an American. To have such a nice free-flowing article you have to be liberal with accuracies and Jenkins is certainly doing that.

But sure, let's go overboard and ruin conversations about this article by changing this thread to be about every other f***ing thread on this board. Danny-Bud-Statue-A$G-New Owners.

So anybody who doesn't agree with your view is a troll?  How quaint that perch upon the Iron Throne of Hawks landing must be. 

[Guest]

So anybody who doesn't agree with your view is a troll?  How quaint that perch upon the Iron Throne of Hawks landing must be. :bowdown:

You're the worst because of how everything is black and white to you. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with a Bud-Ferry thing here. I'm upset that you've turned an article about the TEAM into your vendetta against Ferry. Let's get off that subject a while.

[HawkItus]

You're the worst because of how everything is black and white to you. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with a Bud-Ferry thing here. I'm upset that you've turned an article about the TEAM into your vendetta against Ferry. Let's get off that subject a while.

How did I do that?  You are the only guy that has mentioned ***** *****

[Guest]

Sigh, funny people on the Squawk.

DF got KILLED for signing these same players, because he couldn't lure the stars, but thank God that Bud was the one who wanted Sap, DMC, Thabo and Baze.

Can't have it both ways guys.

[Guest]

Sorry @hawksfanatic , my apologies - no more DF talk.

[Guest]

Sorry @hawksfanatic , my apologies - no more DF talk.

 

All your fault, Jaybird.  I spend way too much time in NC to be getting (further) on HF's bad side.

[MaceCase]

How did I do that?  You are the only guy that has mentioned ***** *****

To be honest, as I read that entire article and came across that particular snippet I knew that you specifically (amongst others) would jump at it.  Lo' and behold, so let's not try to be coy about what drew you towards that specific quote and the action of posting it.....unless of course you can clarify to us that you had an entirely ulterior motive from the one that was as subtle as a jackhammer, in which case we'll owe you an apology.

 

 

 

As to other selective quoting, what exactly is Koonin's agenda? He "joked" on NBATV that native Atlanteans are rare because they "don't breed well in captivity" and now he's already implemented a Tinder night and is looking forward to an oyster bar.  Is he scheming to create a whole new generation of Hawks fans the old fashioned way?

[AUhawksfan]

As to other selective quoting, what exactly is Koonin's agenda? He "joked" on NBATV that native Atlanteans are rare because they "don't breed well in captivity" and now he's already implemented a Tinder night and is looking forward to an oyster bar.  Is he scheming to create a whole new generation of Hawks fans the old fashioned way?

 

Queue Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get it On."

 

But seriously, that's probably the best Hawks piece I've seen in the mainstream media this season.  Interesting to see Bud's influence but also that it hasn't been a smooth ride.  I'm glad he saw in Teague what others may not have (including myself).  He's really changed his game and implemented a culture as well as a gameplan.

[benhillboy]

Yeah, I always thought Bud was lukewarm on Jeff. I kinda like the elitist attitude Danny has instilled, too. They aren't ashamed to voice how much superior their style of play is over the rest of the league, that's how they're so confident night in and out. Kyle seems the most brash about it becuase he was the spark I guess.

It definately goes down easier when you have an opponent every night complimenting it, although Gay was clowned pretty good for his comments, as he should be.

Edited March 10, 2015 by benhillboy

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I'm already seeing our resident trolls read into this article as if it is fact. It's not meant that way. This is Lee Jenkins telling a story and not Lee Jenkins detailing the events surrounding the Hawks.

The biggest way you can figure this out from the article is that Lee says Al Horford is from Michigan. No. He's not. He spent 3 years in Grand Ledge, which is the same amount of time he spent in Gainesville (http://www.nba.com/enebea/blog/al_horford_en.html).

But if Lee was accurate, then his snippet about "the Hawks’ starting five represent America’s heartland: Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Louisiana and Alabama" would have to be changed. Hell, Horford isn't even an American. To have such a nice free-flowing article you have to be liberal with accuracies and Jenkins is certainly doing that.

But sure, let's go overboard and ruin conversations about this article by changing this thread to be about every other f***ing thread on this board. Danny-Bud-Statue-A$G-New Owners.

 

How was anything I said overboard and worthy of being called a "resident troll"? Am I not allowed to criticize an article? EVERY statement that has ever been made in human history falls into three categories: a fact, an opinion, or a lie and all three are open to criticism. I realize this a feel-good story about Teague and how Bud has positively affected not only him, but the entire roster. But let's not ignore that he seemed to completely forget that Danny Ferry existed other than mentioning the Luol Deng incident and that he is on indefinite leave.

 

And if you don't like your threads being open to criticism or reading an opinion that differs from your own, then maybe posting it on an open forum, which the whole point of its existence is for news and open debate, isn't for you. Oh, and after all the stuff us mods have said on calling people trolls recently, you dish it out like it doesn't pertain to you (and to a mod nonetheless)? You aren't above the rules bro. Take a break and watch it.

[HawkItus]

How was anything I said overboard and worthy of being called a "resident troll"? Am I not allowed to criticize an article? EVERY statement that has ever been made in human history falls into three categories: a fact, an opinion, or a lie and all three are open to criticism. I realize this a feel-good story about Teague and how Bud has positively affected not only him, but the entire roster. But let's not ignore that he seemed to completely forget that Danny Ferry existed other than mentioning the Luol Deng incident and that he is on indefinite leave.

 

And if you don't like your threads being open to criticism or reading an opinion that differs from your own, then maybe posting it on an open forum, which the whole point of its existence is for news and open debate, isn't for you. Oh, and after all the stuff us mods have said on calling people trolls recently, you dish it out like it doesn't pertain to you (and to a mod nonetheless)? You aren't above the rules bro. Take a break and watch it.

I doubt he was referring to you.  You speak highly of ***** ***** and in favorable terms.  He was talking about me and maybe 1 or 2 others.  Still the whole troll thing is weak.  

[benhillboy]

I have a general sense, but still haven't totally grasped what an "internet troll" is.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I doubt he was referring to you.  You speak highly of ***** ***** and in favorable terms.  He was talking about me and maybe 1 or 2 others.  Still the whole troll thing is weak.  

 

I do have a tendency to take things the wrong way and the name calling and troll comments needs to be put to end. Argue the points, but don't belittle the person making the comments. And for the record, I like hawksfanatic and have no problem with him. Although he can be a hothead and likes to push the envelope at times, he is one of the more educated posters and backs his opinions up with facts. It's nothing personal here, but it is a sensitive subject on the Squawk and needs to be avoided and treated with ease.

Edited March 10, 2015 by PSSSHHHRRR87

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I have a general sense, but still haven't totally grasped what an "internet troll" is.

 

It's a poster that makes posts just to stir the pot and get a rise out of posters. There MO is just to piss people off and they don't mean a word they say.  They just do it for kicks and giggles. But it's definitely not a person that has a different opinion from your own...

[taz]

How is milsap the undertaker? That's my big question stemming from the article

[RandomFan]

This entire article is just one big BJ for Coach Bud and illustrates just how important someone like him can be for an organization. I mean, just consider the coaches he replaced and the mess he had to undo before he could begin to set things the way he wanted.

 

This right here is just inexcusable from our waste of space coaches Woody and Drew:

 

Shortly after sharpshooter Kyle Korver joined the Hawks 2½ years ago, he told Teague how he liked to receive passes when racing around pin-down screens. “He’d never been taught stuff like that,” Korver recalls. “It wasn’t his fault. It was how he’d been programmed.” Rather, it was how he’d been re-programmed.

 

No wonder hardly any of the talent we've drafted for the last decade has panned out. As long as the new owners keep out of the way and don't mess up the good thing that is Coach Budenholzer (sans Ferry or not), then we should be witnessing the dawn of the Golden Era of Hawks basketball folks. Lets enjoy this ride!

[hawkman]

Now some might understand why a raw talent like Josh turned out like he did. There was ZERO player development back then. Players were allowed to develop bad habits, and in some cases, not develop at all (Marvin). I don't know what's worse, struggling to develop talent or not being able to draft talent in the 1st Round. Both are maddening.

[lethalweapon3]

Alright, let's moveon.org.

 

One nit-picky critique I had with the piece was this characterization of Larry:

 

In May ’13, Atlanta hired Budenholzer to replace coach Larry Drew, just as Teague entered restricted free agency. He was a middling 6' 2", 180-pound speed merchant, prepared to sign with the Bucks, where Drew waited with more isos. 

 

 

Is that really fair to LD?

 

Granted, Brandon Knight didn't turn into The Second Coming of Jason Kidd in his first season under Drew's watch. But the Hawks' transition to passing and motion offense (albeit stunted by a certain player or two) began under LD.

 

Who is to say that the evolution out of ball-stopping offense was certain to regress for Teague in Milwaukee? The Bucks' assist tally dropped in Drew's first season, but that was more of a function of the talent already on the 15-67 team, coupled with Drew's fatal-flaw of being satisfied working with whatever roster his GM gives him.

 

Indeed, the Bucks are a better passing team under Kidd now (7th in NBA, up from 17th under Drew), but the move away from LD had more to do with the owner doing his own "coach-bud" a favor than any legitimate concerns about style of play. Now if this was about Teague somehow being saved from Woody's Knicks (dead-last in APG in 2012-13), I'd have little issue with that.

 

Jeff has of course ascended into All-Star strata under Bud. But his first foray into ball movement was in between the 2011-12 (last season with Joe around) and 2012-13 seasons, when Teague's assists went up from 4.9 per game (his 1st season as a starter) to 7.2, the same average as he has now in 2014-15. His usage% jumped up in that time from 19.1 to 23.0, but it's still well below the 25-26% range he's held under Bud's regime.

 

Jeff's percentage of 2-pointers (20.1%) and 3-pointers (66.7%) that were assisted this season are also down from 2012-13 under LD (21.3% and a career-high 71.9%, respectively).

 

Passing under Bud Ball has been magical, this year's 25.7 team APG (2nd in NBA) the most since Bob Weiss' ill-fated 1991-92 crew. Yet the only non-Bud Hawks team with at least 23 APG for a season in the past 20 years was the 2012-13 squad (24.5 APG, 2nd in NBA) from Larry's final season here. The Hawks never finished higher than 12th in assists with Woody at the helm, but in LD's seasons the team rose up the charts from 12th to 8th to 2nd.

 

It's why I concur with @hawksfanatic that SI's Jenkins took a well-written and appealing story and sprinkled some creative liberties into the narrative, to taste.

 

~lw3

[Guest]

It's a poster that makes posts just to stir the pot and get a rise out of posters. There MO is just to piss people off and they don't mean a word they say.  They just do it for kicks and giggles. But it's definitely not a person that has a different opinion from your own...

 

@Spud2Nique is sitting at home like ...

 

In all seriousness, this was a great article even with all the poetic license and slight inaccuracies.  Imagine that.  A nice pro-Hawg article and we're so spoiled that we can't just enjoy it.

 

Remember when we were complaining about getting no shine at all?  What are we going to be as a fanbase next year when we'll surely be on TV a LOT more.  Some folks are gonna be insufferable.