Thabo & Pero Arrested; Thabo OUT FOR SEASON due to injuries

[Guest]

• "Who did you approach first." "Defendant."

• Is that the defendant? Yes. That's him walking away from scene? Yes. West? Yes. Away from the stabbing? Yes. That's the correct way to go? Yes. The lawful way? Yes. He's not angry? Yes. He's not disorderly? Yes. He doesn't appear to be commiting a crime? Yes

 

So based on the above, I have surmised that the NYPD is basically saying to Thabo ...

 

 

Here's Thabo shortly after his lawsuit ....

 

 

And shortly thereafter ...

 

[JETSET]

@kg01

 

I hope Thabo gives them hell!

[capstone21]

@kg01

 

I hope Thabo gives them hell!

I don't even think he needs to.  

[HawkItus]

 

Prosecution First Witness - Shield 9996

Shield 9996 was the Arresting Officer (AO) in this case. The AO is a term of art that refers to the officer who is in charge of processing the paperwork after arrest. They are not necessarily the person who actually put cuffs on the defendant (in fact, often, for tactical reason at trial, etc, they are purposefully not that person). In this case AO is a 3 year police officer (aka relatively new). He is the person who first engaged Thabo and told him to leave the scene. Then continued to tell him to leave the scene. He is the officer who was referred to as a midget.

Direct Examination by Prosecution - I'll be honest, I missed this. I only had one case on today, and I figured I should go actually serve my clients. The real fireworks are during cross, so I skipped. (Prosecution direct examination usually so boring!)

Cross Examination by Defense -

• "You testified you're allowed to move someone as far as you want to. You can move 'em to the hudson if you want to."
• During your CCRB investigation, you said he was 50 feet from "immediate" crime scene. Now you say 20?
• You said you asked him to move 4 times, or 5 times, or 6 times or 7 times. You said different amount every time. How many was it? "No matter how many times, why didn't he move after I asked him once?"
• "You said he moved only 2 feet every time you asked him. How did he get all the way to 10th avenue?" "I asked him and other officers asked him and then he moved." "So it was 2 feet, 2 feet, 2 feet, then 75 feet?" "Correct."
• Officer never reviewed video. Never saw video of him walking by white people and approaching Sefolosha.
• Thabo not intoxicated. He said "Ok, Ok no problem." Third time: "I'm not doing something wrong. I'm just standing here. If i was a midget, I'd be mad too."
• "I was not raising my voice, just projecting my voice. Being authoritative."
• A car arrives
• I didn't know why Thabo was being arrested, i just saw him engaged with other officers.
• "immediate" crime scene is around the corner. Perpetrator is in handcuffs. It is out of sight. You can't hear or see anything that is happening where the stabbing had occurred.
• Denies being a "rookie" officer, but graduated academy in 2013.
• Paperwork indicates incident happened in front of 1Oak club. Officer sticks to his paperwork, but concedes that the incident with Thabo started 50 feet west of the stabbing. And continued further away. "That is still in front of 1oak"
• CCRB inquiry - officer saw Sefolosha walk into car, and then get back out again.
• I saw officer sullivan push him, I didn't know why at this point.
• No idea what broke Thabo's leg.
• He was walking fine. Advised him not to go to hospital, because that would slow how long it would take him to be released from police custody. D refused ambulance.
• There were 150-200 people. Noone else arrested. There were several people (>5) that were closer to the stabbing than Thabo.
• Defense introduces video (we can't see it, because facing the jury)
• "Who did you approach first." "Defendant."

• Is that the defendant? Yes. That's him walking away from scene? Yes. West? Yes. Away from the stabbing? Yes. That's the correct way to go? Yes. The lawful way? Yes. He's not angry? Yes. He's not disorderly? Yes. He doesn't appear to be commiting a crime? Yes

• Were you polite to Defendant? Did you say, "With our without a badge I would *beep* you up?" Officer denies.

• Ofc denies seeing baton coming out.

• Ofc heard people screaming. Heard people saying, "He did nothing wrong, get off of him"

• Ofc does not hear "excuse me sire, put your hands behind your back."

• The other officers were not wrong to bring out the baton.

• "I told him to clear the block... to go to 10th ave." And he did go to 10th? Correct.

 

This is a running synopsis of being a black man in America for 400 years.  Go where and when tell you to go, it better be fast, or I will beat your ass.  

Edited October 6, 2015 by HawkItus

[lethalweapon3]

The third and fourth NYPD witnesses before the end of the day were quite telling as well. The second one was pretty useless.

 

~lw3

[Watchman]

This is a running synopsis of being a black man in America for 400 years.  Go where and when tell you to go, it better be fast, or I will beat your ass.  

Wow.  How the prosecutor ever thought it was a good idea to bring these charges to trial is beyond me.

[Watchman]

So based on the above, I have surmised that the NYPD is basically saying to Thabo ...

 

 

Here's Thabo shortly after his lawsuit ....

 

 

And shortly thereafter ...

 

Well really, since Thabo got paid by the Hawks anyway, any monetary awards should go to the Hawks, or split it between them.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Watchman

[lethalweapon3]

With a threat of, "I'll mess/F-word** you up", Cop A harasses Thabo (who had just exited the nightclub) off of 17th Street, all the way across the street to 10th Avenue, where Thabo's car is either waiting or had just arrived (I presume Pero and Friends are in the car by this time?). The location is at least 50 feet away from the crime scene and past several bystanders (primarily, persons of the Caucasian persuasion) who are not being accosted in a similar fashion, if at all.

 

Thabo fends off Cop A's threat and tells off Cop A by calling him a "midget" with "a badge and a gun," but complies with Cop A's persistent command by getting into his taxi/limo. But first, he notices a homeless man and gets back out to talk to him, right before Cop B grabs the homeless guy and begins escorting the homeless guy further away up 10th Ave. Thabo runs toward the pair to try and give the homeless guy some money before he gets hauled off to who-knows-where. The Cops see this and think Cop B is being "charged" and go in on Thabo. A fustercluck ensues.

 

**F-word is not "Fat"

 

~lw3

[Guest]

Wow.  How the prosecutor ever thought it was a good idea to bring these charges to trial is beyond me.

 

Well, from the deals they offered at the last minute, it appears they tried not to.

[lethalweapon3]

Looking at that TMZ video again, in the opening moments it appears Thabo indeed had a wad of cash in his hand as he was being rustled up by the officers. Pero is already comfortably laying on the ground in his skinny jeans by the time the video begins, so Thabo must have been possessing the dough in his hand for quite some time.

 

Once the cop-grabbing began, it seems to me that a key part of the "resisting" involved Thabo trying in vain to get the money back in his pocket... lest the cash intended for the homeless guy wind up, instead, getting washed away in the NYPD-sphere of "evidence". I'm just happy Thabo never got a chance to reach back into his pants/hoodie pockets. After all, he's still with us today.

 

~lw3

[hawkman]

After reading the recap above, this case is a farce and should be thrown out immediately. This whole situation was initiated and then escalated by the NYPD into what we saw on the video. That original police report has about as much credibilty as used toilet paper. To say they 'stretched' the truth to justify the arrest is an understatement. They outright lied about virtually everything that happened that night because they felt they wouldn't be held accountable for their actions. How arrogant do you have to be to go forward with a case that is so weak, you offered TWO deals? HOW ABOUT DROPPING ALL OF THE CHARGES and saving the money wasted on this case to help with all the $$$ they're going to have to pay Thabo when this is over.

[Sothron]

I still believe this cost us a chance at a ring. If our team was healthy in the playoffs I absolutely believe we beat any team in a four game series.

[JETSET]

After reading the recap above, this case is a farce and should be thrown out immediately. This whole situation was initiated and then escalated by the NYPD into what we saw on the video. That original police report has about as much credibilty as used toilet paper. To say they 'stretched' the truth to justify the arrest is an understatement. They outright lied about virtually everything that happened that night because they felt they wouldn't be held accountable for their actions. How arrogant do you have to be to go forward with a case that is so weak, you offered TWO deals? HOW ABOUT DROPPING ALL OF THE CHARGES and saving the money wasted on this case to help with all the $$$ they're going to have to pay Thabo when this is over.

What sucks is the money will come out of the taxpayer's pockets while these cops will just keep doing what they have been doing.

[nitte]

 HOW ABOUT DROPPING ALL OF THE CHARGES and saving the money wasted on this case to help with all the $$$ they're going to have to pay Thabo when this is over.

 

How about putting those officers in jail for breaking the leg of a professional athlete?

[JETSET]

Prosecution Fourth Witness - Investigating Officer (I missed all of direct, and most of cross). Didn't catch this officer's name, but he was one of the officers who was clearing the scene.

Cross Examination

• D is showing officer a series of photos. They are of artichoke pizza and shows a lot of people milling about there ordering pizza, hanging, etc.
• Officers didn't arrest anyone there.
• Noone told them "You gotta leave."
• Artichoke Pizza people are closer to the scene than the officers arresting Thabo. "They might have been undercovers." (Aside - holy hell this is the type of answer D attorney dreams of getting in cross. He had a field day with it during cross, and I bet he has even more fun with it in closing. Undercover officers, pleeeeeeease.)
• The CCRB investigation. That is still ongoing. It is still on the line what will happen with this case and the officers involved.

 

 

Gotta love the ridiculous response from the officer when he was asked why folks closer to the scene weren't bothered while Thabo was being harassed.

[JETSET]

Day 2 Wrap Up:

I honestly am not sure if the evidence could have come in better for D. I'm sad that I'll miss closing arguments on Thursday, because they're going to be a blast. Prosecution has 2, but potentially 3 more witnesses tomorrow. All officers. The potential third is a CCRB investigator. One of the witnesses will be the leg breaking officer. I imagine D will be putting on a case as well, so D's case will likely not begin until the afternoon. Thabo will likely testify. Who knows, maybe they'll get a bunch of civilian witnesses to testify to? Preeeetty exciting. GO HAWKS!

[MaceCase]

 

Prosecution Fourth Witness - Investigating Officer (I missed all of direct, and most of cross). Didn't catch this officer's name, but he was one of the officers who was clearing the scene.

Cross Examination

• D is showing officer a series of photos. They are of artichoke pizza and shows a lot of people milling about there ordering pizza, hanging, etc.
• Officers didn't arrest anyone there.
• Noone told them "You gotta leave."
• Artichoke Pizza people are closer to the scene than the officers arresting Thabo. "They might have been undercovers." (Aside - holy hell this is the type of answer D attorney dreams of getting in cross. He had a field day with it during cross, and I bet he has even more fun with it in closing. Undercover officers, pleeeeeeease.)
• The CCRB investigation. That is still ongoing. It is still on the line what will happen with this case and the officers involved.

 

 

Gotta love the ridiculous response from the officer when he was asked why folks closer to the scene weren't bothered while Thabo was being harassed.

 

Cops typically don't give a damn about trials, the arrests are enough to fill their quotas not convictions, those go on the DA's stat sheet.

[JETSET]

Prosecution Fifth Witness - Jordan Rossi - Shield 3917

This guy performed extremely well on direct. I remember wondering why that was when he first started his testimony. Then he started talking about pulling out his baton. Oh. This is the guy who D is going to say broke his leg. He's probably had numerous conversations with NYPD legal. Sorry, that's speculation. On to the testimony.

Direct examination by the prosecution:

• Received a radio run for 85 - "Officer needs assistance"
• One male stabbed, arrived and Sgt. Montana said establish a crime scene.
• We established it with verbal commands. Told people to get off 17th st, go to 18th street.
• People generally compliant. 50-60 people in front of the club. Lots of clubs on the street. About 150-200 on street.
• Clearance boundaries - 10th avenue on the east side from 16th to 18th street. 17th street from the club all the way to 10th avenue.
• Why those boundaries? Once you set boundaries, can't reduce. So we wanted it big.
• I participated in arrest of D.
• First noticed D across street from 1oak. Ofc was 15-20 feet away from him. Saw him verbally yelling at officers. One of officers was 9996. Heard D call him "midget" and "p*ssy."
• Continued to push people toward 17th street
• noticed D again. "I got to 10th, continued walking pedestrians up north on 10th. My back was toward other officers. I heard "Stop resisting, put hands behind back, you're under arrest."
• Saw two officers b/w vehicles trying to arrest D. Not successsful.
• THey had their hands on his left and right arms, trying to put behind his back.
• Walked toward officers, tried to assist them.
• Tried grabbing D by left shoulder. Unsucessful. The officers (pause) took down D. He still wouldn't let them arrest him.
• Took out baton. "Why did you take out your baton?" Training. In training we were taught to apply to pressure points. Heel, back of tricep. Frees officers hands to make arrest.
• He was trained to use baton in this manner. In academy and in a recent 2015 training.
• But officer did NOT use his baton in any of those ways during the arrest.
• Prosecution shows Defense video (we can't see it, it is facing jury, but it is very loud and you can hear lots of civilians shouting. "Stop" "What are you doing?" etc. I distinctly hear at the end a woman saying, "He was just trying to give him money!")
• Did you strike? No. Did you use your baton? No.
• After handcuffs, I walked to the building and stood on sidewalk. Sgt told me to holster my baton. To holster you need to smack it on a hard surface. I smacked it, so that I could holster it.
• Why didn't you use it? "It wasn't necessary. After I pulled it out, I deemed it unnecessary. I felt it was safe enough, I kept it by my leg."

Cross Examination by Defense

• (Referring to video, but not playing it) Do you hear civilians saying Stop? Help? He didn't do anything wrong? relax? Ofc. doesn't really give a yes or no answer.
• Ofc has seen video before.
• Ofc told supervisor, Sgt. Montana that he had taken out his baton. "I did not use it, i told him I took it out." Ofc told supervisor this before the video broke publicly.
• Before baton, you know of no crime committed by Thabo? Correct.

• p*ssy and midget is not a crime? Correct. Even to an officer? correct.

• (Impeachment) You testified just now that people were generally compliant. But you told ADA earlier (and reported in your paperwork) "Noone really listening, moving slowly, 150 people in the area.". Ofc fights that this is inconsistent statement, "Moving slowly IS generally compliant."

• You didn't pull baton on anyone else? no. Didn't slam anyone else to ground? No. Noone else leg was shattered? No. Some of those people there were white? Yes.

• (Impeachment) You testified about boundaries of crime scene. But you told ADA (reflected in paperwork) that you told people to "move off the block". Yes. So this is first time that anyone is hearing what the specific boundaries are? Yes.

• At moment baton comes out, lots of people are closer to crime scene than D.

• Officer has only watched the video "once or twice."

• Officer testifies to hearing "hands behind back" But you don't hear it on the video? "Not on this video" Is there another video? "Not that I know of."

• Officer gets up and demonstrates his position and how he was holding the baton.

• Is it your testimony that you would have been perfectly in the right to strike Mr. Sefolosha with your baton? "Yes, he was resisting."

Prosecution Rests and Trial Order of Dismissal:

Wow, P's case is done by 11:00 AM. Looks like D case might finish today also. I definitely saw Antić out in the hallway, so he's testifying. Thabo likely to testify too. Lots of other people, I think we will have a bunch of civilian witnesses.

Trial order of dismissal is a motion made by the defense to ask Judge to dismiss the case before it reaches the jury, because, as a matter of law, the People have not put forward a legally sufficient case. It is viewed in a light most favorable to the prosecution, and (sadly) is almost always denied. At least I've never seen a case dismissed at this stage in the proceeding. D attorney still arguing pretty passionately right now, but seems clear that it's going to be denied, so I ran out here to write it up.

[lethalweapon3]

The Redditor noted that he saw Pero in the hallway, so in all likelihood, he'll be one of the Defense witnesses.

 

~lw3

[capstone21]

 

Prosecution Fifth Witness - Jordan Rossi - Shield 3917

This guy performed extremely well on direct. I remember wondering why that was when he first started his testimony. Then he started talking about pulling out his baton. Oh. This is the guy who D is going to say broke his leg. He's probably had numerous conversations with NYPD legal. Sorry, that's speculation. On to the testimony.

Direct examination by the prosecution:

• Received a radio run for 85 - "Officer needs assistance"
• One male stabbed, arrived and Sgt. Montana said establish a crime scene.
• We established it with verbal commands. Told people to get off 17th st, go to 18th street.
• People generally compliant. 50-60 people in front of the club. Lots of clubs on the street. About 150-200 on street.
• Clearance boundaries - 10th avenue on the east side from 16th to 18th street. 17th street from the club all the way to 10th avenue.
• Why those boundaries? Once you set boundaries, can't reduce. So we wanted it big.
• I participated in arrest of D.
• First noticed D across street from 1oak. Ofc was 15-20 feet away from him. Saw him verbally yelling at officers. One of officers was 9996. Heard D call him "midget" and "p*ssy."
• Continued to push people toward 17th street
• noticed D again. "I got to 10th, continued walking pedestrians up north on 10th. My back was toward other officers. I heard "Stop resisting, put hands behind back, you're under arrest."
• Saw two officers b/w vehicles trying to arrest D. Not successsful.
• THey had their hands on his left and right arms, trying to put behind his back.
• Walked toward officers, tried to assist them.
• Tried grabbing D by left shoulder. Unsucessful. The officers (pause) took down D. He still wouldn't let them arrest him.
• Took out baton. "Why did you take out your baton?" Training. In training we were taught to apply to pressure points. Heel, back of tricep. Frees officers hands to make arrest.
• He was trained to use baton in this manner. In academy and in a recent 2015 training.
• But officer did NOT use his baton in any of those ways during the arrest.
• Prosecution shows Defense video (we can't see it, it is facing jury, but it is very loud and you can hear lots of civilians shouting. "Stop" "What are you doing?" etc. I distinctly hear at the end a woman saying, "He was just trying to give him money!")
• Did you strike? No. Did you use your baton? No.
• After handcuffs, I walked to the building and stood on sidewalk. Sgt told me to holster my baton. To holster you need to smack it on a hard surface. I smacked it, so that I could holster it.
• Why didn't you use it? "It wasn't necessary. After I pulled it out, I deemed it unnecessary. I felt it was safe enough, I kept it by my leg."

Cross Examination by Defense

• (Referring to video, but not playing it) Do you hear civilians saying Stop? Help? He didn't do anything wrong? relax? Ofc. doesn't really give a yes or no answer.
• Ofc has seen video before.
• Ofc told supervisor, Sgt. Montana that he had taken out his baton. "I did not use it, i told him I took it out." Ofc told supervisor this before the video broke publicly.
• Before baton, you know of no crime committed by Thabo? Correct.

• p*ssy and midget is not a crime? Correct. Even to an officer? correct.

• (Impeachment) You testified just now that people were generally compliant. But you told ADA earlier (and reported in your paperwork) "Noone really listening, moving slowly, 150 people in the area.". Ofc fights that this is inconsistent statement, "Moving slowly IS generally compliant."

• You didn't pull baton on anyone else? no. Didn't slam anyone else to ground? No. Noone else leg was shattered? No. Some of those people there were white? Yes.

• (Impeachment) You testified about boundaries of crime scene. But you told ADA (reflected in paperwork) that you told people to "move off the block". Yes. So this is first time that anyone is hearing what the specific boundaries are? Yes.

• At moment baton comes out, lots of people are closer to crime scene than D.

• Officer has only watched the video "once or twice."

• Officer testifies to hearing "hands behind back" But you don't hear it on the video? "Not on this video" Is there another video? "Not that I know of."

• Officer gets up and demonstrates his position and how he was holding the baton.

• Is it your testimony that you would have been perfectly in the right to strike Mr. Sefolosha with your baton? "Yes, he was resisting."

Prosecution Rests and Trial Order of Dismissal:

Wow, P's case is done by 11:00 AM. Looks like D case might finish today also. I definitely saw Antić out in the hallway, so he's testifying. Thabo likely to testify too. Lots of other people, I think we will have a bunch of civilian witnesses.

Trial order of dismissal is a motion made by the defense to ask Judge to dismiss the case before it reaches the jury, because, as a matter of law, the People have not put forward a legally sufficient case. It is viewed in a light most favorable to the prosecution, and (sadly) is almost always denied. At least I've never seen a case dismissed at this stage in the proceeding. D attorney still arguing pretty passionately right now, but seems clear that it's going to be denied, so I ran out here to write it up.

 

Love these write up summaries!