Teague vs. Dennis (what has to be fixed)

[Diesel]

I have enjoyed watching our guys play in the offseason.  Especially the last three games.  Yep even the Deron Williams Luck game.

 

In watching this season but especially this series, here's what I have found.

 

Teague is a disciple of this offense.

Dennis is not.

 

Teague is a good on-ball defender.

Dennis struggled against Deron Williams.

 

I know it's age and timing... however, for Dennis, I don't know about that offensively.  When I watch Dennis on offense, the reason why we looked so helter skelter is because he goes away from the offense about 70% of the time.  I really get the impression that he wants to shine.  Teague proved last night, that he can shine by running the offense.  That's something that I don't think Dennis is willing to do yet.

 

We have a great one two punch but Dennis has to completely buy into the offense.  Several times, he would come down and would primarily look for his own shot.  So when everybody was cutting and when we had guys open on the floor, Dennis would either try making a marvelous pass or try scoring the ball himself.  The problem with that is that he doesn't always score or make the best pass.  But our offense is like Novocain.  Just give it time, always works.

 

I'm not as worried about Dennis vs. Deron.  Deron was able to able to put moves on Dennis.  That will change with experience. However, I don't think Teague ever gets his due for being a good defender.  In this series, he clearly was better on the defensive end than Dennis and all you will ever hear is how good a defender Dennis is and how bad a defender Teague is.

 

Time will fix our ills and it's a shame that we don't have Sefolosha.  But I wish that we can get Dennis up to that 85% of the time he runs the offense mark.

 

 

[AmishBoy]

Dennis was getting abused by Jarret Jack as well but you have to keep in mind that this is Dennis' first playoffs.  I don't think he got in the game at all last year.  I would have bet money Dennis would be a better player by now, but Jeff's growth under Bud has been amazing.

 

As a side note, just think how good Milwaukee would be going forward with Jeff.  Ugh.  Glad we kept him.

[Diesel]

Dennis was getting abused by Jarret Jack as well but you have to keep in mind that this is Dennis' first playoffs.  I don't think he got in the game at all last year.  I would have bet money Dennis would be a better player by now, but Jeff's growth under Bud has been amazing.

 

As a side note, just think how good Milwaukee would be going forward with Jeff.  Ugh.  Glad we kept him.

 

Yeah.  People here were so against keeping Jeff.  However, I believe he's proved his worth.

 

Like I said about Dennis... Time will heal our ills.  He just needs time and maturity.

[DS17Fanboy]

Only game(1) where Jack shined offensively against Dennis, Dennis had his own. Jack predominantly shined vs Teague. People think bench player vs bench player, but high usage Jack vs struggling Deron stays on when Dennis leaves the court. People then see the postgame statline and think it was Dennis's fault.

 

Why not watch the game instead. And again how many buckets did Deron score on Dennis? Im curious for the answer.

 

This isnt to say that Dennis is playing sub par, for what potential he has, but lets stop with the myths people are creating to explain why things happen in basketball, as if now you got a clue of what went wrong.

 

Dennis all year has been a different player to Teague, Antić different to Horf, Millsap to Scott, etc. Bud knows this and lets Dennis do his thing with the second unit as he clearly thinks (as COY, not opportunistic whiner) that Dennis brings most to the table of that unit and has his primary strenghts in creating his own shots. Does that mean that I do not see Dennis being more about his? I surely do but along with him having an ego issue, he also has a strenghts and playing with other benchplayers issue. When people where making the most ruckus, Dennis came in and 3 Hawks players made dumb TO's that had no due to Dennis at all. Yeah surely the pace and flow isnt the same...But where where you all noticing this when all went right the entire regular season. It has not been different with Dennis on the court all year long.

 

People need to stop thinking that you can get a whole entire game going like the first quarter. But again, I ask if people even watch basketball all that much.

Edited May 2, 2015 by DS17Fanboy

[benhillboy]

Yall know better than to question Dennis. Fanboy will swoop down instantly and let you know the score.

Dennis does exactly what Bud allows/ encourages him to do. I have noticed his defensive intensity drop off quite a bit, I still think that toe isn't 100%. But he was one of the most efficient drivers in the regular season, I believe he has the green light to probe driving lanes before starting a game of hot potato. If someone was "going outside" of the offense they wouldn't even be on the roster, let alone be our 6th Man.

[DS17Fanboy]

I always said he has problems with larger guards like Lowry, or in this case Jack who use the deep pick and roll with Lopez and Plumlee to go for easy 2's instead of packing the perimeter. However Jack scored 4 points in game 3, 5 points in game 4, and 12 of his 18 points in game 5 where on Teague. So he evidently greatly improved his defense after game 1, while Dennis's offense took a plundge with it. The last game Bud changed the defensive tactic and allowed switches whenever Dennis faced that pick and roll with Jack. Which is allot less straining, and voila Dennis could actually operate somewhat normally again on offense.

 

All Im saying is that Dennis did his part one way or the other, and that seasoned vet Jack getting so much praise was ran out of this series with 3.0 TO's a game.

 

But people expect the game to not change when the bench comes in....

Edited May 2, 2015 by DS17Fanboy

[tonegully]

Dennis needs to go back to attacking the basket. The jumper here and there but he doesnt shoot good enough to shoot from the outside like that. He is at his best when attacking the basket

[IheartVolt]

Looking for scapegoats after every game is getting old and tiresome. If someone came onto these boards at any giving time they would think Hawks fans are whiney and entitled. Yea imagine that.

I for one love Dennis and excited about his future. If you guys need scapegoats why not find someone who does not attempt to play and D , while at the same time playing horrible on the other side of the floor?

[DJlaysitup]

Dennis just needs to get his sh_t together - otherwise play Mack. ...simple as that. Turnovers kill.

[NBASupes]

I'll wait a series that favors Dennis skill-set to start a thread but then again, you never been a Dennis supporter and always been a Jeff guy.

[benhillboy]

However inefficient, 9 and 3 from a 21 YO PG in a playoff series ain't too shabby (21!!!). Stronger, bigger PGs are clearly his weakness, nothing to fear too much the rest of the way. He infuriates Wall because he can match him step for step without breaking a sweat. Blow by him on the other end.

I do want him to lay off the three and seek fouls more often. He's automatic from the line, and gets in a nice groove with his short jumper off the drib. Of course Bud thinks all his players will bust out from three with their next shot so I'll let him coach. I thought it'd be impossible for Dennis to shoot .440 from three in a month but he did that.

Edited May 2, 2015 by benhillboy

[SalvorMallow]

I always said he has problems with larger guards like Lowry, or in this case Jack who use the deep pick and roll with Lopez and Plumlee to go for easy 2's instead of packing the perimeter. However Jack scored 4 points in game 3, 5 points in game 4, and 12 of his 18 points in game 5 where on Teague. So he evidently greatly improved his defense after game 1, while Dennis's offense took a plundge with it. The last game Bud changed the defensive tactic and allowed switches whenever Dennis faced that pick and roll with Jack. Which is allot less straining, and voila Dennis could actually operate somewhat normally again on offense.

 

All Im saying is that Dennis did his part one way or the other, and that seasoned vet Jack getting so much praise was ran out of this series with 3.0 TO's a game.

 

But people expect the game to not change when the bench comes in....

 

Give me a freakin' break.  You're really trying to defend Dennis in this series?

 

He was 

WS/48. -.066   

DRTG  107 

ORTG of 85

2/12 3P

23/55 2P

eFG 43.6%

49% FG in the restricted area

 

You use the argument that Jarret Jack scored more points on Teague as an argument, but Teague played double the minutes of Schröder.  

 

Schröder had a few moments in game 6, but he was absolutely MISERABLE in every other game this series.  

 

The team scored 37.4 more points per 100 possessions with Teague on the court than Dennis in this series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

A strong argument can be made that the lackluster play of the second unit is the primary reason this series went to 6 games.  One of the big reasons we looked so much better in the last few games is because Dennis's minutes were limited.

 

Just because Schröder was terrible in this series doesn't mean he can't come back with more focus in the next series, but I definitely think he needs to get the hook early if he comes out out of control like he was was for games 1-5 and the 4th quarter of game 6.    One can hope.

[rd79]

Schröder had a few moments in game 6, but he was absolutely MISERABLE in every other game this series.

Bullshit. Have you even watched all games?

1st game was okay. 2nd was actually very good (12 p on 5/11 FG 1/2 3FG 6 ass 1 to)

The other case is that people don't realize he has to play with other bench players who didn't play well this series (only Antić did) and the starters still on the court start to get tired when he enters after 9 mins in the 1st.

Yes his +/- looks awful, but it's not always that easy to analyse.

Sure he didn't match regular season expectations vs Nets but I don't see a reason to bash him like that.

Some people will always need someone to complain about...

[SalvorMallow]

Bullshit. Have you even watched all games?

1st game was okay. 2nd was actually very good (12 p on 5/11 FG 1/2 3FG 6 ass 1 to)

The other case is that people don't realize he has to play with other bench players who didn't play well this series (only Antić did) and the starters still on the court start to get tired when he enters after 9 mins in the 1st.

Yes his +/- looks awful, but it's not always that easy to analyse.

Sure he didn't match regular season expectations vs Nets but I don't see a reason to bash him like that.

Some people will always need someone to complain about...

OK, he was also OK in game 2.

 

I don't think you watched the games if you're claiming Dennis didn't have anything to do with the way the offense collapsed nearly every time he touched the floor, regardless of the lineup.  Dennis played out of control, threw tons of terrible passes at players feet trying to thread the needle, couldn't finish at the rim, took contested 3s early in the clock, didn't fight through screens,  looking at lineups, the pace often grinded down into the 70s when Dennis was on the floor....the list goes on and on.  

 

I know Dennis is your golden boy, but there is no reason to act like he should be immune from criticism after the series he had.

 

I do agree with you that Bazemore and Scott had equally terrible series though.

[willthepureshooter]

Bullshit. Have you even watched all games?

1st game was okay. 2nd was actually very good (12 p on 5/11 FG 1/2 3FG 6 ass 1 to)

The other case is that people don't realize he has to play with other bench players who didn't play well this series (only Antić did) and the starters still on the court start to get tired when he enters after 9 mins in the 1st.

Yes his +/- looks awful, but it's not always that easy to analyse.

Sure he didn't match regular season expectations vs Nets but I don't see a reason to bash him like that.

Some people will always need someone to complain about...

Dennis blew every lead we had during the Nets series, except for game 6 (Bud rode the starters longer).. Its okay to be critical of your favorite players. He was awful this past series.

[rd79]

Of course it's okay to criticize him and I mentioned he didn't played as expected and had some weak games...

Yes I'm a fan boy, but sometimes I think I'm more objective than a bunch of other posters... 

 

But okay, so Dennis blew every lead on his own, because he was the only Hawks player on the court during this stretches...

And by the way, the seasoned veteran Mack who is often referred as experienced player to replace Dennis has 45 minutes more playoff experience...

[JETSET]

Of course it's okay to criticize him and I mentioned he didn't played as expected and had some weak games...

Yes I'm a fan boy, but sometimes I think I'm more objective than a bunch of other posters...

But okay, so Dennis blew every lead on his own, because he was the only Hawks player on the court during this stretches...

And by the way, the seasoned veteran Mack who is often referred as experienced player to replace Dennis has 45 minutes more playoff experience...

You should see this thread full of dennis criticism as a good thing. It just shows how much we like the kid and how much he has impressed us this year. We wouldnt be as hard on him if we didnt think he could be a game changer for us. This is why you will see his bad play getting called out before Baze or Scott's. Dennis has the ability to take this team to a higher level when he is on his game and we need to see that over the next month.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I always said he has problems with larger guards like Lowry, or in this case Jack who use the deep pick and roll with Lopez and Plumlee to go for easy 2's instead of packing the perimeter. However Jack scored 4 points in game 3, 5 points in game 4, and 12 of his 18 points in game 5 where on Teague. So he evidently greatly improved his defense after game 1, while Dennis's offense took a plundge with it. The last game Bud changed the defensive tactic and allowed switches whenever Dennis faced that pick and roll with Jack. Which is allot less straining, and voila Dennis could actually operate somewhat normally again on offense.

 

All Im saying is that Dennis did his part one way or the other, and that seasoned vet Jack getting so much praise was ran out of this series with 3.0 TO's a game.

 

But people expect the game to not change when the bench comes in....

Dennis posted an individual defensive rating of 107 in that series, the worst among all of the rotation series.

He also posted an individual offensive rating of 85. Only Kent Bazemore was worse.

The most telling stat about Dennis in that series, is that he had a Usage % of 30.2 .... normally only superstar scorers have usage percentages in the 30 percentile range. This speaks volumes to what his mindset on offense is.

I'm a Dennis supporter. But he didn't come close to running the offense in that series, and the Hawks suffered for it. He needs to calm down, get other people involved, and pick the right time to look for his own offense.

[SalvorMallow]

I think this is true even as it applies to Dennis at times. I think some combination of 1) not having an emotional attachment to Atlanta and 2) German/European education contribute to being objective. But it's refreshing to see on this board.

 

How does a European education contribute more to being objective on a sports forum than an American education?

Edited May 3, 2015 by SalvorMallow

[rd79]

How does a European education contribute more to being objective on a sports forum than an American education?

 

I'd like to know that too.

German sports forums doesn't seem different to me.

 

Maybe I should be happy that some are complaining about a 9.3p, 3.3a series since it was unimaginable for many he would be able to do that at all after last year...

 

Now let's get the 1st WIN of 2nd round!