This team has reached it's ceiling

[Watchman]

I'm not for maxing out Millsap, but I am certainly opposed to maxing out Monroe.  Millsap is at least a moderately good defender.  Monroe is a matador.  I like his rebounding, but if we signed Monroe in lieu of Millsap, I don't really see it as anything more than a lateral move at best.

[Ebert]

I'm not for maxing out Millsap, but I am certainly opposed to maxing out Monroe.  Millsap is at least a moderately good defender.  Monroe is a matador.  I like his rebounding, but if we signed Monroe in lieu of Millsap, I don't really see it as anything more than a lateral move at best.

 

Well, Monroe's max contract is less than Millsap's. Like 3M or so.

 

Anyway I don't think Millsap will be maxed out...

[GameTime]

I'm not for maxing out Millsap, but I am certainly opposed to maxing out Monroe.  Millsap is at least a moderately good defender.  Monroe is a matador.  I like his rebounding, but if we signed Monroe in lieu of Millsap, I don't really see it as anything more than a lateral move at best.

 

 

Monroe has some of the best post skills in the NBA. He is also a 10+ rebounder. He gives us confident scoring, passing and is an elite passer for his position. How is it lateral. 

 

He is also 4 inches taller than Sap, 6 years younger, and his max is much cheaper.

Edited May 23, 2015 by GameTime

[Diesel]

Moves will have to be made in the off-season. 

 

We need to upgrade the talent level. Teague has high trade value. If he can get us the 6 pick/McLemore, we need to do it. 

 

I rather max out Monroe than Sap. Sap is too small and Horford is too small at C. Move him to PF and Monroe to center and go from that. 

 

Edy Tavares is a must have. We need a very good rim protector and rebounder who can give us great size.

 

Korver isn't a playoff player. He's fine for 2015-16 as a starter but McLemore or Hezonja/Winslow needs to take his minutes in the playoffs. 

 

DMC is a goner. We can afford what teams are willing to pay for him. We are all about cap management and paying him more than 10 mil is bad for our cap. 

 

We must upgrade our wing depth. 

 

Dennis isn't ready to start but he's a 3rd year player and he has more talent than anyone on this team. It might be his time if we can get the value we need for Teague. Honestly, Teague needs to stay but we should get the value in a trade to get rid of Teague. 

 

If we can't sign Monroe, we need to sign Brook Lopez or resign Sap. We can't leave this off-season with no all star level bigs. Then we run the risk of losing Horford in FA for 2016. 

 

More Knee Jerking.

 

Let's let Bud work.  We're walking wounded right now and even if this is our ceiling, it doesn't mean we give up on the first Hawks team that has ever done anything worth talking about.   This team is historic and you want to trade everybody away after two losses?

BOOOO YOU.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I'd love it if we stole a healthy Brook Lopez from the Nets or somehow landed LMA. He works in Bud's offense of space and pace, although he doesn't solve defense or rebounding.

 

I've cooled on Monroe in Atlanta cause he doesn't stretch the floor which Bud loves doing. Sap will likely be kept tho.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Another thing about Monroe is he is likely to sign in New York

[yungsta]

 

Monroe has some of the best post skills in the NBA. He is also a 10+ rebounder. He gives us confident scoring, passing and is an elite passer for his position. How is it lateral. 

 

He is also 4 inches taller than Sap, 6 years younger, and his max is much cheaper.

The problem I have with monroe is that he is a tweener PF/C. he cant guard either mobile PFs but isnt strong enough to guard Cs. He has stone feet and cant guard the pick and roll and has poor awareness.

 

He has zero range on his jumpshot and his development has been very stagnant since he came into the league so I question whether he will ever get any better.

 

So basically he is a non shooting, non defending, nonathletic big which have little value in todays NBA.

Edited May 24, 2015 by yungsta

[Plainview1981]

More Knee Jerking.

 

Let's let Bud work.  We're walking wounded right now and even if this is our ceiling, it doesn't mean we give up on the first Hawks team that has ever done anything worth talking about.   This team is historic and you want to trade everybody away after two losses?

BOOOO YOU.

 

Coach Bud has done nothing in these playoffs to standout as a really good coach. Coach Bud helps give us the dreadful Pero Antić and Adreian Payne. Who was traded for a worthless pick.

 

This core does not have the ability to do better than what they've done. They went as far as they can go... And resigning Carroll and Sap to large contracts would be a mistake. 

 

The team from December and Jan is not coming back. Next year the Hawks will have a target on their backs right from the start. There will be no sneaking up on teams the first half of next year like there was this year. Which is partly what helped this team take off the way that it took off in December and January. 

 

If this team couldn't get the job done while having the easiest path... How can you really believe they will do anything better when the going gets tougher next year?

[atlhawks1]

The reason you make moves this off season is if you don't you'll be stuck with Sap and Carroll for x amount of years more. I like Carroll but I think he is the product of the system, Analyst  were saying what a good job he has done on Lebron but even when not injured Lebron is getting his points in the 1st playoff game. Sap is a nice player but as we see the team is getting badly outrebounded and the only way to improve it get another power forward or center and put Horford at pf. Sure we had 4 all stars but as we see they are good for the regular season. The playoffs re an entirely different story where defenses get much tougher and what was successful in the reg season isn't successful in the playoffs. The Hawks remind me alot of the Atlanta Braves. Always good in the regular season but the playoffs just didn't have the team to win it all.

 

Answering the question why break up 4 all stars well you see now in the playoffs the Hawks are just not one player away. These all stars for the most part are getting shut down and their ceiling isn't going to get much higher.

 

I disagree. The Hawks to me ARE one good player away. There are two different directions the hawks should go. One would be to get a true center and move Horford to power forward, with Korver to sixth man and Sap moving to small foward, Carroll to shooting guard. Heck, they all play undersized anyway, moving down one more spot isnt out of the question because of the system.

 

The other way is to keep everything the same, except move Korver to sixth man, and go get a shooting guard that can create. I know it wouldnt happen, but i would love to see Kawhi Leonard at shooting guard and small forward with the Hawks.

Edited May 24, 2015 by atlhawks1

[Diesel]

Coach Bud has done nothing in these playoffs to standout as a really good coach. Coach Bud helps give us the dreadful Pero Antić and Adreian Payne. Who was traded for a worthless pick.

 

This core does not have the ability to do better than what they've done. They went as far as they can go... And resigning Carroll and Sap to large contracts would be a mistake. 

 

The team from December and Jan is not coming back. Next year the Hawks will have a target on their backs right from the start. There will be no sneaking up on teams the first half of next year like there was this year. Which is partly what helped this team take off the way that it took off in December and January. 

 

If this team couldn't get the job done while having the easiest path... How can you really believe they will do anything better when the going gets tougher next year?

Next to go is Coach of the year Bud.  Hotlantalogic????

[Plainview1981]

Next to go is Coach of the year Bud.  Hotlantalogic????

 

I'm not saying he has to be fired. But people have too much faith in him. He is to Greg Pop what Lenny Kravitz is to Jimi Hendrix.

 

A RIP OFF.

 

I don't think his resting players helped at all. If anything, it put it in the players head that not all the games are important. The mindset of this team changed. When they were playing well they had the mindset that they were not satisfied... Later in the season we kept hearing that they "lost focus". That could be heard a pretty good bit.

 

His love of Pero is not helpful. The Payne move turned out to be crap. There is nothing special about most of the Hawks draft picks at all. Dennis could be good, but I have a feeling that he could be the next Reggie Jackson. I think he has an arrogance and a selfishness to his game. If he gets a big head he could turn out to be a troubled player.

 

When his came to shove, Bud could motivated the players... And they were unprepaired to handle or adjust to many players.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Hotlanta1981

[NBASupes]

I'm not saying he has to be fired. But people have too much faith in him. He is to Greg Pop what Lenny Kravitz is to Jimi Hendrix.

 

A RIP OFF.

 

I don't think his resting players helped at all. If anything, it put it in the players head that not all the games are important. The mindset of this team changed. When they were playing well they had the mindset that they were not satisfied... Later in the season we kept hearing that they "lost focus". That could be heard a pretty good bit.

 

His love of Pero is not helpful. The Payne move turned out to be crap. There is nothing special about most of the Hawks draft picks at all. Dennis could be good, but I have a feeling that he could be the next Reggie Jackson. I think he has an arrogance and a selfishness to his game. If he gets a big head he could turn out to be a troubled player.

 

When his came to shove, Bud could motivated the players... And they were unprepaired to handle or adjust to many players.

I think Bud is special. I don't think as high of Ferry. I think he lucked out with this squad overachiving. We need a center, we need a backup center who can rim protect and we need some star potential out of the SG and SF positions.

[Plainview1981]

I think Bud is special. I don't think as high of Ferry. I think he lucked out with this squad overachiving. We need a center, we need a backup center who can rim protect and we need some star potential out of the SG and SF positions.

 

I saw nothing from Bud in these playoffs. I think he is a good enough regular season coach, but I don't think he can live up to what people think he is.

[NBASupes]

Another thing about Monroe is he is likely to sign in New York

I am an internet hawk (no pun) I haven't seen anything saying that he's going to NY and that's final like Bruce Irvin and the Falcons. Some media ppl said it and his agent was like hell naw.

 

All I know is we was close to signing with us but we couldn't work out a deal with DET. He wants to come to Atlanta. The system, his role and our coaching is what he liked about Atlanta. I think we get him. I feel more positively about signing him more than the others

[GameTime]

 

The problem I have with monroe is that he is a tweener PF/C. he cant guard either mobile PFs but isnt strong enough to guard Cs. He has stone feet and cant guard the pick and roll and has poor awareness.

 

He has zero range on his jumpshot and his development has been very stagnant since he came into the league so I question whether he will ever get any better.

 

So basically he is a non shooting, non defending, nonathletic big which have little value in todays NBA.

 

Not based on his play this year.

 

 

Detroit A.S. (After Smoove) has actually been at its best with both Drummond and Monroe on the floor, per NBA.com. Monroe is beasting in the post, dishing snappy interior passes, and making smart reads on defense. He’ll never be a rim protector, but opposing ball handlers are shooting just 38.5 percent on pick-and-rolls in which Monroe’s man is the screener — a strong number, per Synergy.

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-all-star-team-eastern-western-conference/

 

 

"I think Greg's actually pretty good defensively," Van Gundy said. "I've thought that all year.

 

"He's a very good low post defender, in my opinion. And he's a smart defender. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes."

 

In a way, Van Gundy believes Monroe's lack of athleticism makes him a more sound player because he knows he doesn't have the natural ability to cover up for mistakes and play above the rim. Of course, Andre Drummond is the athlete who can erase everybody's mistakes when he's on, but Monroe is usually in the right place at the right time.

 

"He's not a shot blocker but he's not out of position very much," Van Gundy said. "He's very attentive to game plans, you can make adjustments with him. He's smart, a very good position defender. I think he's developed that over time."

 

Position-wise, Monroe is likely a more effective low-post defender than Drummond. Monroe knows how to use his base to provide enough resistance against other bigs while Drummond is still learning how to use his base, relying more upon blocking shots than keeping a guy away from his sweet spots.

 

"He's not that freak athlete where he can make a mistake and recover with quickness and jumping ability," Van Gundy said of Monroe. "He's got to be in the right spot and he is. His mental approach and ability makes him a solid defender."

 

Of the 14 players currently averaging 10 rebounds or more per game, Monroe and Cleveland's Kevin Love probably have the least to work with athletically — and Love has been criticized for abandoning defensive principles in the attempt to stuff the stat sheet.

 

Monroe said he's always known from his college days he would have to rely on his brain and preparation over any other skill on that end. Oftentimes, Van Gundy will switch Monroe onto opposing centers when Drummond is having trouble defending on the ball, and Monroe has shown the ability to disrupt rhythm.

 

"Yeah, just making sure I'm in the right position," he said. "Definitely understanding personnel, knowing what guys like to do, their habits and tendencies. It's something I've been trying to get better on and focus on. As a team, we've gotten better defensively."

 

Monroe appears to be a natural center, which made his transition to power forward last season a difficult one. But he and Drummond don't play bulk minutes together, leaving Monroe back at center more times than not. And when he does play the power forward, Van Gundy isn't very concerned about the "stretch fours" who can drag Monroe out to the perimeter.

 

"Some of the real quick 4's are a challenge for him, but they are for David West and Zach Randolph and anyone else who are inside-oriented bigs," Van Gundy said. "I don't look at Greg as anything else than a good defensive player."

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2015/01/23/pistons-monroe-actually-good-defender-says-van-gundy/22253271/

 

He was actually a solid pick-n-roll defender and post defender this year.

 

 

[NBASupes]

Monroe is ideal. He can play center and play it well. He can post up and score as well v. size. He's a very good rebounder as well. He plays with a team like us with spacing and he will have a field day.

[RandomFan]

I saw nothing from Bud in these playoffs. I think he is a good enough regular season coach, but I don't think he can live up to what people think he is.

Yeah, god forbid a coach could actually improve with more experience with his team. Everybody knows you are what you are as soon as you come out the box!

 

/casm

 

And for other people that think this team has peaked in the 2nd year under this staff - I've seen some ridiculous things on this forum over the years, but this might actually take the cake as the most ridiculous EVER. Unreal. Three years after a major overhaul, and 2 years after bringing this coaching staff in - we were in the freaking final 4 for goodness sake. Missing our best backup wing defender. A myriad of other nagging injuries to starters. A gimped DMC after the 1st game. With a roster that has never been this far. With a lot of young talent that will be steadily improving, and other players all in their prime. With Tavares likely coming over. And a #15 draft pick for even more depth. We've turned ourselves into a desirable free agent destination. Korver is the only one even close to being over the hill. Some of you people make me want to slap you upside the head to knock some sense into ya.

Edited May 24, 2015 by RandomFan

[MaceCase]

And what a nice ceiling it is.

 

12 months ago the Hawks were living in an outhouse and now they've moved into a mansion but people are complaining that they can't paint frescoes and shit on the ceiling. 

 

Enjoy what you have, recognize that the young guys are likely to get better, the vets aren't likely to fall off a cliff and that there's plenty of room to sign depth players that many will likely go from bitching about getting signed in the first place to bitching that if only they were healthy the ceiling might be higher.

[NBASupes]

And what a nice ceiling it is.

 

12 months ago the Hawks were living in an outhouse and now they've moved into a mansion but people are complaining that they can't paint frescoes and shit on the ceiling. 

 

Enjoy what you have, recognize that the young guys are likely to get better, the vets aren't likely to fall off a cliff and that there's plenty of room to sign depth players that many will likely go from bitching about getting signed in the first place to bitching that if only they were healthy the ceiling might be higher.

Some of us were optimstic especially with the success with had last year with bottom 5 talent. So our success this year was a suprise but it wasn't unfounded.

[Macknsweetjones]

Sign a center..move Horford to PF...draft Devin booker..resign DMC let sap walk.

With Devin booker Korver can play limited minutes until booker is ready to start.