Elements of Greatness

[Jody23]

Watching the NBA Finals, it's pretty evident that to win the championship, a team has to have elements of greatness somewhere. Whether that be an individual player like LeBron, whether it be a great team, or a combination of both (Spurs), the title teams have some form of greatness. Do the Hawks, as currently constructed, have any elements of greatness? If not how can they get it? If the Hawks bring back the same team, they'll be really good. But let's face it, really good is not going to beat Lebron James. In the East, the road to the Finals will go thru him for a while.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Jody23

[JTB]

Yeah man....I think the Hawks need to adjust in a way to beat the cavs. Every one knew that Lebron would be in the ECF regardless of his opponents in rounds 1 & 2 and it's pretty evident that he will make it again for the next 3-5 years

Hawks have to make adjustments to beat the cavs. Screw the other east teams they aren't a sure thing like the cavs so what should the Hawks do? Sooner or later they are going to have to start spending money regardless to obtain greatness....they can start by building on to this team now

[frosgrim]

Part of what the Hawks need will come from natural, internal growth. Most, if not every modern era championship team, failed at one point in the playoffs before winning. Maybe the Garnet + Pierce + Rando Celtics don't fit that assertion, but the rest of the teams did have team they had to figure out how to get past. 

 

For the Hawks, they have to figure out across the board how to deal with the LeBron and gang. Do the Hawks need to make some personnel upgrades? I say yes. Do they need to change the mix of starters? Probably. Does the coaching staff need to improve? Definitely. Are all these achievable? I say yes, but it will require some hard decisions on the part of the new owner(s) and whatever management structure they put in place. 

[macdaddy]

The Cavs went out at the trade deadline and got not one but three really good rotation players at the most important roles for the playoffs: rebounding big, 3 and D guy, and a wing who's not afraid to shoot.   That's why they are where they are.  Without those trades they wouldn't be in the finals.   I like the guys on our team but we sat on our hands as the #1 seed and let the Cavs get better than us through trade.   JR Smith, Shump, and Mozgov are big upgrades to a team that's already really good.

[Guest]

The Cavs went out at the trade deadline and got not one but three really good rotation players at the most important roles for the playoffs: rebounding big, 3 and D guy, and a wing who's not afraid to shoot.   That's why they are where they are.  Without those trades they wouldn't be in the finals.   I like the guys on our team but we sat on our hands as the #1 seed and let the Cavs get better than us through trade.   JR Smith, Shump, and Mozgov are big upgrades to a team that's already really good.

 

I don't disagree.  I do understand why they stood pat at the deadline.  At that point the issues we ultimately had weren't necessarily evident.

 

However, I find it's always good to be proactive.  Kind of an 'if you're not getting better, you're getting worse' way of looking at things.

[Watchman]

Watching the NBA Finals, it's pretty evident that to win the championship, a team has to have elements of greatness somewhere. Whether that be an individual player like LeBron, whether it be a great team, or a combination of both (Spurs), the title teams have some form of greatness. Do the Hawks, as currently constructed, have any elements of greatness? If not how can they get it? If the Hawks bring back the same team, they'll be really good. But let's face it, really good is not going to beat Lebron James. In the East, the road to the Finals will go thru him for a while.

Elements of greatness and the refs in your back pocket.  Is any one else appalled that Lebronski can chop block Curry causing him to lose control of the ball and no one even hinted at that being a foul, from the refs to the announcing crew?  To me it was absolutely apparent that he had fouled Curry, yet no one even acknowledged it.  Sometimes it's hard not to think things are fixed by the league/TV networks.

[Jody23]

Elements of greatness and the refs in your back pocket. Is any one else appalled that Lebronski can chop block Curry causing him to lose control of the ball and no one even hinted at that being a foul, from the refs to the announcing crew? To me it was absolutely apparent that he had fouled Curry, yet no one even acknowledged it. Sometimes it's hard not to think things are fixed by the league/TV networks.

Yeah I saw that. It was clearly a foul and yes LeBron gets away with stuff. But, the guy is still a great player.

[Watchman]

Yeah I saw that. It was clearly a foul and yes LeBron gets away with stuff. But, the guy is still a great player.

He is a great player, but he doesn't need any help.  It seems to me the league is doing their darnedest to make sure the Cavs win it all.

[Jody23]

He is a great player, but he doesn't need any help. It seems to me the league is doing their darnedest to make sure the Cavs win it all.

Agreed. It's a shame the league allows the shady stuff and it's all about money in the end. But, you're right that he doesn't need the help.

[Guest]

Yeah I saw that. It was clearly a foul and yes LeBron gets away with stuff. But, the guy is still a great player.

 

This isn't aimed at you, J23 but I think the statement you made is what makes it so tough.

 

We all know he's the best in the game right now.  Why should that be tacked on to every criticism of anything he does?

 

What ends up happening in the media is folks use that to attack or discredit anyone who's not a LiiBron psychophant.  Like, "Oh you think he fouled Curry?  You must not think he's great!"  No, I just saw a clear foul.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

And, like @Watchman says, LeeBrun doesn't need help from the league.

[macdaddy]

This isn't aimed at you, J23 but I think the statement you made is what makes it so tough.

 

We all know he's the best in the game right now.  Why should that be tacked on to every criticism of anything he does?

 

What ends up happening in the media is folks use that to attack or discredit anyone who's not a LiiBron psychophant.  Like, "Oh you think he fouled Curry?  You must not think he's great!"  No, I just saw a clear foul.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

And, like @Watchman says, LeeBrun doesn't need help from the league.

 

It was true with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Wade.   They are allowed to be more physical on defense than other players,  they travel and carry the ball constantly, and they all get to show up the refs with no consequence.   You think the refs don't know that if there is adverse action against these guys that ends up taking them off the floor that they won't be ref'ing big games anymore or ref'ing at all.

[macdaddy]

You know I'm just now reminded of something that happened after game 2 of the finals that i didn't really think about.

 

A guy in my office who is just a casual nba fan at best came in and said 'did you see at the end of the game lebron got hacked and there was no call'.   Now he was right in that instance but it's interesting that he's never made a comment about any other ref'ing decisions, but when you miss a call on lebron getting fouled then everyone in the world notices but the other 1 million times it goes the other way happens without notice.

Edited June 10, 2015 by macdaddy

[Watchman]

You know I'm just now reminded of something that happened after game 2 of the finals that i didn't really think about.

 

A guy in my office who is just a casual nba fan at best came in and said 'did you see at the end of the game lebron got hacked and there was no call'.   Now he was right in that instance but it's interesting that he's never made a comment about any other ref'ing decisions, but when you miss a call on lebron getting fouled then everyone in the world notices but the other 1 million times it goes the other way happens without notice.

Yes, and no one mentions that Thompson obviously pushed Lee out of the way, and gets the rebound, and then Lee gets called for the foul.  I wish there was a national forum to point this crap out, but I just can't get into Twitter, Facebook, et al.  I'm just an old fogey, I know, but we ought to be able to post on NBA.com without having to be a member of a social media outlet.

[ATLSmith]

I find it helps to keep in perspective how difficult it actually is to win a championship.  There is only one up for grabs every year and you have to go through some very talented teams to get it.  If it was easy then LeBron would have one a couple of titles with Cleveland before he went to Miami.

 

The key is to be in contention as much as possible.  The Hawks should be in the running for a while now and that's what counts.

[Guest]

It was true with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Wade.   They are allowed to be more physical on defense than other players,  they travel and carry the ball constantly, and they all get to show up the refs with no consequence.   You think the refs don't know that if there is adverse action against these guys that ends up taking them off the floor that they won't be ref'ing big games anymore or ref'ing at all.

 

Good luck to Tony Brothers (I think it was him) getting another Finals gig after missing that Iguodala foul on LeiBron at the end of game 2.

 

You know I'm just now reminded of something that happened after game 2 of the finals that i didn't really think about.

 

A guy in my office who is just a casual nba fan at best came in and said 'did you see at the end of the game lebron got hacked and there was no call'.   Now he was right in that instance but it's interesting that he's never made a comment about any other ref'ing decisions, but when you miss a call on lebron getting fouled then everyone in the world notices but the other 1 million times it goes the other way happens without notice.

 

Did you ask that mouth-breather how many times LeighBron changed pivot feet prior to that foul?

 

Yes, and no one mentions that Thompson obviously pushed Lee out of the way, and gets the rebound, and then Lee gets called for the foul.  I wish there was a national forum to point this crap out, but I just can't get into Twitter, Facebook, et al.  I'm just an old fogey, I know, but we ought to be able to post on NBA.com without having to be a member of a social media outlet.

 

Dude, you do NOT want to go national with any form of LeiBrun criticism.  You will be social-media-lly tarred, feathered and kicked outta town.

[Watchman]

Good luck to Tony Brothers (I think it was him) getting another Finals gig after missing that Iguodala foul on LeiBron at the end of game 2.

 

 

Did you ask that mouth-breather how many times LeighBron changed pivot feet prior to that foul?

 

 

Dude, you do NOT want to go national with any form of LeiBrun criticism.  You will be social-media-lly tarred, feathered and kicked outta town.

I know.  I have a knack for taking up for the underdog, and being trashed for it.  I guess I'm just wired wrong.

[Guard]

I've been watching this series trying to figure out what Atlanta can do to have a shot at beating Cleveland next season and I haven't been able to come up with anything. I'm just being honest. The Warriors have a better team talent wise than the Hawks and they're struggling.

 

This Finals series has confirmed to me that a healthy Cleveland team is scary. They could be 3-0 right now which is insane.

[AHF]

It was true with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Wade.   They are allowed to be more physical on defense than other players,  they travel and carry the ball constantly, and they all get to show up the refs with no consequence.   You think the refs don't know that if there is adverse action against these guys that ends up taking them off the floor that they won't be ref'ing big games anymore or ref'ing at all.

 

I hated it with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Wade, etc. and I hate it with Lebron.  I don't know why they can't just call the same fouls regardless of  the jersey or name on the jersey.  But the reality is that the game is called differently for the "superstars" and that aura is extended to his teammates in many cases.  It is disheartening.

 

It makes me think of when I am playing sports against guys ~20 years younger than me.  I don't foul.  So when one of them starting grabbing my jersey or pushing off I get really pissed.  I was warned by a ref a couple weeks ago for letting some language fly when that happened but it really pisses me off when a guy who is that much younger, faster and stronger still feels the need to foul and then I really get pissed when it doesn't get called.  And there I don't think the refs have an agenda, they are just amateurs who are going to miss some easy calls.  In the NBA there is an agenda to favor the superstars (even though I don't think it is mandate from the league to help one team win).  I would be a risk to get massively T'd up in the NBA with the way they call the games.

[Guest]

I hated it with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Wade, etc. and I hate it with Lebron.  I don't know why they can't just call the same fouls regardless of  the jersey or name on the jersey.  But the reality is that the game is called differently for the "superstars" and that aura is extended to his teammates in many cases.  It is disheartening.

 

It makes me think of when I am playing sports against guys ~20 years younger than me.  I don't foul.  So when one of them starting grabbing my jersey or pushing off I get really pissed.  I was warned by a ref a couple weeks ago for letting some language fly when that happened but it really pisses me off when a guy who is that much younger, faster and stronger still feels the need to foul and then I really get pissed when it doesn't get called.  And there I don't think the refs have an agenda, they are just amateurs who are going to miss some easy calls.  In the NBA there is an agenda to favor the superstars (even though I don't think it is mandate from the league to help one team win).  I would be a risk to get massively T'd up in the NBA with the way they call the games.

 

Something tells me, if you were in the NBA, getting T'd up would be the least of your worries ...

 

[AHF]

Something tells me, if you were in the NBA, getting T'd up would be the least of your worries ...

 

 

I would just stand aside if Kemp came down the lane on me like that.  I wouldn't even qualify as an exciting target to dunk over!