Which BIG will it be?

[Guest]

Wow, we just saw Howard's health (sic) and leadership (sic) contribute to taking down a WCFinalist and yall want us to sign up for that freakshow?

[JTB]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's a complete overreaction because those two aren't the problem.  Bud simply needs to adjust his scheme and lineup to fit his players.  Most important, he needs to find a combination that he can trust defensively.

Bud needs to go BIG, and stop trying to get maximum minutes out of people like Moose, Patterson, and Scott.  Start Splitter, let Al play PF, and move Millsap to SF ( or a Power 3 ).  

In the brief time that those 3 have played together this season ( 13 minutes ), they have played well.  And when you look at the 2 man groupings, both Al and especially Millsap, have gotten things done team wise, with Splitter on the floor.

I think Bud needs to give Horford and Millsap even more scoring responsibilities, and stop relying so much on scrubs to provide offense.  If they're jacking up 3s, I don't have a big problem with that IF a guy like Splitter is in the game and can grab an offensive rebound or 2, to give us some extra possessions.

Like I said earlier in the week, I fully expect this bad stretch of ball to get worse, before it gets better.  Bud will figure it out though, and we'll be on our way.

Just don't go into panic mode in November.

Not gon lie...you make a ton of sense but by no means was I overreacting or you wouldn't have gone out your way to suggest a major change to the lineup.

 

now I agree with what your saying and it's obviously what bud need to do if he doesn't plan on trading anybody but what sucks is that we have do a wait and see approach with Bud and he may not go this route....hell bud may elect to start Dennis to make a major lineup change before he consider starting splitter.

 

I still believe bud is a top coach in this league and that he's extremely smart and knows talent but I'm afraid that he may have a coach man love for some of our players 

[Guest]

Before all these reactionary trade suggestions,  My solution would be to: 1)Move Sap to the bench (he didn't sacrifice $ to keep DMC, time for him to do something now)   2) Al moves to PF, that way we can really see what he can do as the full time 4, 3) Start Splitter and Thabo  4) throw Edy into the fire.  That way as @TheNorthCydeRises suggested Al and Millsap takes more offensive responsibilities.  Teague/Al and Dennis/Sap PnR.

[JTB]

27 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Before all these reactionary trade suggestions,  My solution would be to: 1)Move Sap to the bench (he didn't sacrifice $ to keep DMC, time for him to do something now)   2) Al moves to PF, that way we can really see what he can do as the full time 4, 3) Start Splitter and Thabo  4) throw Edy into the fire.  That way as @TheNorthCydeRises suggested Al and Millsap takes more offensive responsibilities.  Teague/Al and Dennis/Sap PnR.

Well to saps credit he has been our best offensive player so moving him to the bench wouldn't be a great move for us. Other than that I like every other suggestion ...even throwing Edys ass in the fire! We have nothing to lose so hell why not.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Well to saps credit he has been our best offensive player so moving him to the bench wouldn't be a great move for us. Other than that I like every other suggestion ...even throwing Edys ass in the fire! We have nothing to lose so hell why not.

I understand but if where're trying to help our offensive balance on the bench and be  bigger in the starting lineup that's the option.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Before all these reactionary trade suggestions,  My solution would be to: 1)Move Sap to the bench (he didn't sacrifice $ to keep DMC, time for him to do something now)   2) Al moves to PF, that way we can really see what he can do as the full time 4, 3) Start Splitter and Thabo  4) throw Edy into the fire.  That way as @TheNorthCydeRises suggested Al and Millsap takes more offensive responsibilities.  Teague/Al and Dennis/Sap PnR.

That's actually a very interesting theory.  The only problem with Sap off the bainch is I think we'd struggle even more mightily to score.  I do want to see them toss Edy on the fiar though.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's actually a very interesting theory.  The only problem with Sap off the bainch is I think we'd struggle even more mightily to score.  I do want to see them toss Edy on the fiar though.

My thinking is that Al and Teague will need to be more aggressive on offense. I need to see Al get his  'cough cough' Karl Malone on, lol @NBASupes. 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My thinking is that Al and Teague will need to be more aggressive on offense. I need to see Al get his  'cough cough' Karl Malone on, lol @NBASupes. 

My thinking, and I am considered the eggspert here harrumph, is that they are what they are at this point in their careers.  Relying on them to have this awakening of aggressiveness would be problematic.

[nonono]

I would start sap and bench al.  Sap is a little smaller but has always been a great rebounder for his size, plus he isn't the one jacking up ill timed 3s and taking 20 foot #2s.  Let Al sort his head out a bit, and don't punish our best player so far this season

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't think it's an overreaction.  It's a conversation that has been 9 years in the making.   When we first got Horf, he reproduced what we had in Smoove.    We got rid of Smoove (headcase) and got Sap.    Sap was more of a post player when we got him but has flourished in the midrange.  Since that time, Horf has gone from being midrange guy to being a guy who wants to prove that he can hit a three (Josh Smith Disease).   The part where he is right is that we have to be PERFECT for our offense to work because we're not getting those important second shots nor are we keeping the other team off the boards on defense.  IF our shots aren't falling, we're not going to win.  I suggested a band-aid like picking up a rebounding, banging big and moving Horf to PF and Sap to Sf.   But in all actuality, our game is strained because we don't have perfection and we don't have anybody rebounding consistently.

Don't forget that I'm the same dude that was clamoring for us to go after Al Jefferson, because he was an interior scoring big and a very good defensive rebounder.  I've always said that we needed more size on the frontline.  But the majority of the Squawk hated the idea of adding a Jefferson - Horford frontline.  

Now people are mad because Horford is playing like Dirk Nowitzki, instead of hitting the boards.

As for Millsap, he's light years ahead of Josh Smith as a player.  Josh was a gambler and far too confident in himself as an offensive player.  Millsap is a "Jack of all trades" type of player who can legitimately play 2 positions and can at least shoot league average from 3 point range.

Trading either Millsap or Horford, without getting a top level frontline player in return, solves none of our issues.

I mean, would you trade Horford/Millsap for Tristan Thompson? Draymont Green? Hassan Whiteside?

Even trading for your boy Greg Monroe wouldn't help the Hawks, if the rest of the wings and guards stays "as is", and we're still not playing a big lineup.

The Hawks have no defensive identity right now.    We'll continue to be a schizophrenic team until Bud finds the right combo.

No panic mode in November though.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

Well to saps credit he has been our best offensive player so moving him to the bench wouldn't be a great move for us. Other than that I like every other suggestion ...even throwing Edys ass in the fire! We have nothing to lose so hell why not.

Millsap really ain't shit considering his new contract and his defense ain't what it was last year. Then again, our bigs aren't the problem. It's our wings. Korner isn't good as a starter and Thabo as well as Bazemore aren't starters either. But you can't trade them unless you much better value. Easier said than done 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My thinking is that Al and Teague will need to be more aggressive on offense. I need to see Al get his  'cough cough' Karl Malone on, lol @NBASupes. 

Also will never be a Malone type a one offense but he does so much that doesn't show on the statsheet.  Moving him to PF would be ideal but our needs is greater at the wings

[NBASupes]

Bud kept the wrong player.  Dmc has much greater value for us than sap

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Static said:

Horford is the weaker link but he also isn't paid 20mil.

Right now, Money is not the emphasis.  The emphasis is fixing weaknesses.

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, JTB said:

I would take Dwight no doubt but I don't think he changes any thing here like he once would have...we would get more blocks and rebounds but we would still be lacking that go to scorer when the offense get stagnant and with Howard having the biggest name on the team he may try to take over the game,..something we don't want to see!

Let me explain further the Stanley Johnson trade.  Johnson is a Dominique Wilkins type player and he's 19.  We also have Edy who we can bring up.  Right now, we can mentor Edy with Spitter and we can mentor Johnson with Millsap and Johnson is ready to play now but he will become a superstar in a few years.

[Diesel]

38 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Don't forget that I'm the same dude that was clamoring for us to go after Al Jefferson, because he was an interior scoring big and a very good defensive rebounder.  I've always said that we needed more size on the frontline.  But the majority of the Squawk hated the idea of adding a Jefferson - Horford frontline.  

Now people are mad because Horford is playing like Dirk Nowitzki, instead of hitting the boards.

As for Millsap, he's light years ahead of Josh Smith as a player.  Josh was a gambler and far too confident in himself as an offensive player.  Millsap is a "Jack of all trades" type of player who can legitimately play 2 positions and can at least shoot league average from 3 point range.

Trading either Millsap or Horford, without getting a top level frontline player in return, solves none of our issues.

I mean, would you trade Horford/Millsap for Tristan Thompson? Draymont Green? Hassan Whiteside?

Even trading for your boy Greg Monroe wouldn't help the Hawks, if the rest of the wings and guards stays "as is", and we're still not playing a big lineup.

The Hawks have no defensive identity right now.    We'll continue to be a schizophrenic team until Bud finds the right combo.

No panic mode in November though.

Don't misunderstand.  Trading Al for somebody like a Greg Monroe will make us better.  We will have better fit.  Our offense like most successful offenses thrive on one or two things.  For us, it has always been efficiency.  When Al was efficient and Iso Joe was efficient, we were efficient.  However, now, Al is pulling his Dirk imitation because I think he wants to market himself as a 4.  It's not helping us that much because we have lost the simplicity of the easy bucket.  A Monroe would give us an inside player who would force the defense to play inside and give our outside shooters better shots.   That's the other way we become more efficient.  In my eyes, having somebody who can get inside points gives us an inside threat.  Other places in this thread, I have called for a guy like Johnson.  Johnson is an old school Banging, charging Sf.   He becomes an inside threat.  With Al gone, we are forced to speed up the development of Edy who I believe will start a new defensive era in Atlanta Basketball.  An era where we lock down the lane and we get all the boards.  HGe doesn't have offense so like we did we Deke, we will have to have somebody who can pick up the offensive load.  Stanley, Teague, Korver, and Sap!!

 

[MaceCase]

12 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Before all these reactionary trade suggestions,  My solution would be to: 1)Move Sap to the bench (he didn't sacrifice $ to keep DMC, time for him to do something now)   2) Al moves to PF, that way we can really see what he can do as the full time 4, 3) Start Splitter and Thabo  4) throw Edy into the fire.  That way as @TheNorthCydeRises suggested Al and Millsap takes more offensive responsibilities.  Teague/Al and Dennis/Sap PnR.

Horford isn't producing enough to be catered to like that, you're also asking a guy who simply doesn't have enough moves in his repertoire to take on a larger offensive burden, that has disaster written all over it.  That also isn't a sacrifice, it's a slap in the face to Sap to ask him to rub shoulders with Hardaway while watching Al salsa dance around the perimeter.  As Benhill mentioned before, you don't mind Sap spotting up on the perimeter because if the defender closes Sap has the handle to rock even wings out of their shoes with the added ability to *gasps* actually draw a foul too.  Al is the type of player who benefits from those around him drawing more attention on offense and not being the focal point.  We are 9 years in on him, we are well past the point of attempting to pull a Stan Van with Drummond and tank a whole season trying to get him to develop a modicum of a post game.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Diesel said:

Let me explain further the Stanley Johnson trade.  Johnson is a Dominique Wilkins type player and he's 19.  We also have Edy who we can bring up.  Right now, we can mentor Edy with Spitter and we can mentor Johnson with Millsap and Johnson is ready to play now but he will become a superstar in a few years.

You're overrating Johnson by quite a bit here.  Wilkins averaged close to 20/game as a rookie back when that actually meant something.

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, kg01 said:

You're overrating Johnson by quite a bit here.  Wilkins averaged close to 20/game as a rookie back when that actually meant something.

Wilkins did.. but that was a different game.   The young guys don't come as fully developed as Nique was... but that doesn't mean that they can't get there.   I think Johnson has the tools to get there.  I can't say that about everybody.  He has superstar written on him, he just needs to be molded.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Wilkins did.. but that was a different game.   The young guys don't come as fully developed as Nique was... but that doesn't mean that they can't get there.   I think Johnson has the tools to get there.  I can't say that about everybody.  He has superstar written on him, he just needs to be molded.

 

I was on Stanley's bandwagon from day 1...I think he's gonna be Kawhi II...I wish we could have gotten him.