Official Game Thread: Hawks at Spurs

[Hawkmoor]

Hawk's need a real GM running the show.   

[Static]

Last year was a fluke.

[benhillboy]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Undersized,  why is Horford always around the 3pt line on offense 

That's your boy.  4 rebounds, no blocks or steals,  with 1 foul committed and 1 drawn.  It's becoming apparent he just wants to make it to free agency with a clean bill of health.  He'll get his max from a bad team regardless of how unbelievably soft he plays this year.  It's depressing. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

That's your boy.  4 rebounds, no blocks or steals,  with 1 foul committed and 1 drawn.  It's becoming apparent he just wants to make it to free agency with a clean bill of health.  He'll get his max from a bad team regardless of how unbelievably soft he plays this year.  It's depressing. 

I am trying to figure out why he's being used like Pero. It's sickening.  I don't like the way him or Jeff is being used this season. Same for Dennis. Coach Bud needs to make some trades if he gotta use his best players v. Their strengths 

[Guest]

11-8. I still won't panic. We got beaten by the Spurs in San Antonio, so what? The same thing happened last year. We are in a tough part of our schedule. I will say that we don't seem to have the mojo we had last year so far, but remember it's still a marathon that hasn't been 1/4 completed yet. 

[Lurker]

My two cents and some change on Horford is I don't think him NOT shooting threes makes much of a difference. He's showing signs lately that he is playing to not get hurt more than to try to win (which this is a dangerous game to play in both life and sports, if you're just trying to not get hurt, odds are you're going to get hurt).

Besides, if he is playing well, he has no good post moves from what I have seen, his only game is really the pnr and pnp. And people have been crying lately for a big that operates only in the post, right?

Now I was for real when I looked at the schedule and said I was fine with 2-2 in this 4 game stretch and saw this as a schedule loss. Now I didn't know that it'd come with Teague going down for a few games and thanks to Schröder's regression, struggles against Utah and Brooklyn. And a very legit chance of it being 3-1 if the bench wasn't total garbage in Minnesota.

[Guest]

Expected loss with last game of  4 in 5, three of which were on the road.  Going 2-2 in 4 games in 5 nights is nothing to sneeze at.

Can't wait for November to be over.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

 remember it's still a marathon that hasn't been 1/4 completed yet. 

@Spud2NiqueI agree it's a marathon, but you do know that come tomorrow night vs OKC, the Hawks would have completed just about a 1/4 of their season by the end of November?  (20 games). The schedule makers did us no favors with this sprint to start the season.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@Spud2NiqueI agree it's a marathon, but you do know that come tomorrow night vs OKC, the Hawks would have completed just about a 1/4 of their season by the end of November?  (20 games). The schedule makers did us no favors with this sprint to start the season.

Thank you!

Look, I know I'm digging up and beating a long-dead horse but we've played 19 GAMES!!!!!  CHI and WAS have played 14!!!!  Others have played 15!!!  We've had 2 4-in-5 stretches already.  The rest of the league has only 7 of those stretches.  OMFG it drives me crazy that no one even considers this as an issue.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Thank you!

Look, I know I'm digging up and beating a long-dead horse but we've played 19 GAMES!!!!!  CHI and WAS have played 14!!!!  Others have played 15!!!  We've had 2 4-in-5 stretches already.  The rest of the league has only 7 of those stretches.  OMFG it drives me crazy that no one even considers this as an issue.

I remember during the Boston game on TNT, during the game the commentators said the Hawks have had like 2 practices since the season started, seemed like a passing comment at the time, but how does one get better at anything - practice, practice and more practice.  Like @AHF pointed out in his new thread - we need practice time.

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

11-8. I still won't panic. We got beaten by the Spurs in San Antonio, so what? The same thing happened last year. We are in a tough part of our schedule. I will say that we don't seem to have the mojo we had last year so far, but remember it's still a marathon that hasn't been 1/4 completed yet. 

They haven't even played that many really good teams yet.

[benhillboy]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

My two cents and some change on Horford is I don't think him NOT shooting threes makes much of a difference. He's showing signs lately that he is playing to not get hurt more than to try to win (which this is a dangerous game to play in both life and sports, if you're just trying to not get hurt, odds are you're going to get hurt).

I totally agree with the second part of your fear becoming reality when being so cautious.  As far as Al's new three point shooting kick not affecting us, not so much.  

I was gonna post some stats but f$@k it.  I'll just sum it up as he's on pace for the worst season of his career simply because he's not playing where a starting C is supposed to nearly enough.  Backup Cs shooting threes is common and can be a tool.  Pero spaced the floor for Al's once-patented mid-range jumper, the same jumper he's now shooting as often as threes but with .135 better accuracy.  Starting Cs shooting threes is very uncommon especially for a contending team, and disastrous for your overall team toughness.

He is now doing nothing in the way of hidden, easy points from offensive rebounds (I can't remember a single tip-out) and drawing fouls.  I mean, those are easy points when you aren't wearing a bra and worrying about your tits popping out like Al is.

At the end of the day though I blame Bud.  We've always known he wasn't a C.  Bud is dead set on playing him against real Centers while allowing him to totally abandon any traditional duties.  

Opposing center's are licking their chops seeing Al on the schedule nowadays: they know he doesn't want to bang at all or put any pressure on the defense.  They'll gladly take their chances with a .355 shooter, I'm sure Bud has heard of the .400 threshold for truly good range shooters.  They have less fouls to use, more minutes to eat up the glass, they're fresher in the fourth.  You have to also notice the slick dejection and poor body language of the team (and home crowd) when he and Dennis miss those wide open looks.  He's considerably better from the corner, but that even further compromises our transition defense when he misses.

I'm done with my rant, I'll try not to complain about it anymore.  Can you tell I hate Al taking threes though?

Interesting side, looking at Al's career comparisons as far as Win Shares, it seems on the surface the defining characteristic of Al's career is passing.  That's nice, but it's not good.

[Lurker]

What I mean is even if he wasn’t shooting 3’s, I don’t think he’d be banging around down low because he’s too afraid to get hurt. And that’s going to leave Atlanta with the same problem even if he’s not taking 3’s, only one big is willing to be reckless/aggressive on the glass while starting, because Horford will continue to just drift around the perimeter, just inside the arc.

[AHF]

How does that explain Horford's actual numbers?  He is putting up the best oreb rate of his last 4 years and the worst dreb rate of his career.  How does hanging around the 3pt arc on offense stop him from hitting the boards on D?

[DS17Fanboy]

What Horford does very well and he does it in a very consuming fashion, is protecting the paint from driving opponents, hence ends up with his back away from the basket and not being settled for rebounding.  Big's often feast in our paint though, also without offensive rebounds. I think Bud'd strategy includes giving away lots of areas of the game. I think he gives away way to much. Its all nice and all to play with two undersized bigs and a small SF, but for Christ sake at least let them act like bigs sometimes. Millsap though is a stud and beasting. Dont know how long before the gas runs out with him.

[rd79]

At the moment Sap is our best player but the problem is he is a 3.5 (undersized 4, to slow for quicker 3s)  and needs to play with a legit center. But he only he has a 4.5 beside him. And Splitter isn't the help I hoped for, yet. He really topped our PGs in missing layups and seems not to be healthy.

The biggest winner of Al doing a Dirk impersonation lately is Al and his free agent value cause a lot of teams will offer him some legit money for being a strech 4...

Our bigs have been undersized before, but Kyles historic shooting created the space we needed and this season he doesn't (yet?)

Edited November 30, 2015 by rd79

[MaceCase]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

How does that explain Horford's actual numbers?  He is putting up the best oreb rate of his last 4 years and the worst dreb rate of his career.  How does hanging around the 3pt arc on offense stop him from hitting the boards on D?

I've already brought this up to the "Blame Bud" crowd and gotten crickets in response.  I even brought it up in the context that Sap is currently at a career high on the defensive boards so as to point out that it's not particularly a schematic problem as much as it is an Al problem.

 

But seeing as he's a sacred cow* and all, how can you blame him?  He's 8 months away from most likely his last lucrative deal in the NBA, has two season ending injuries and surgeries in the can already caused by previous poor nutrition and training habits, and didn't get to cash out on his first non-rookie deal because of an impending lockout.  Yea, we'd be taking it easy too even if, as has been said, that's probably a more likely way to get hurt.

 

 

 

*Any player in which you receive criticism (no matter how valid) for criticizing (no matter how invalid) is therefore a sacred cow.

[DS17Fanboy]

^Hey maybe the "schematics" include different roles for AL and Sap. Maybe Al as the C is much more involved in defensive tasks behind the perimeter-defenders...

 

I dont see Al as the type that plays soft for a contract. And if he would he'd be stupid, with the low numbers and all. Maybe Bud wants an Antić still around. Maybe Bud would bench players doing stuff on their own all the time....

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, DS17Fanboy said:

^Hey maybe the "schematics" include different roles for AL and Sap. Maybe Al as the C is much more involved in defensive tasks behind the perimeter-defenders...

 

I dont see Al as the type that plays soft for a contract. And if he would he'd be stupid, with the low numbers and all. Maybe Bud wants an Antić still around. Maybe Bud would bench players doing stuff on their own all the time....

He's not playing soft he's playing softer.  He's like an aging Vegas show girl, she doesn't need to show all out and kick her legs all high to get attention, all she needs is to flash a better push-up bra and a smile to get folks to think she's still got all of her past glory.  GM's will still sell themselves on his past glory and the new push up (the 3 pointer) so he's saving himself from more than a few hamstring strains while still earning quite a bit of scratch.

 

Bud is already on record saying his Bigs are Bigs and his Smalls are Smalls, their roles are interchangeable on both ends on the floor and I don't buy this "Bud wants a new Pero" nonsense either.  Pero came off the bench.... his role was a change-up off the bench.  Both Al and Sap just so happened to be here when Pero was here.... if Bud wanted a new Pero he'd be grooming Moose or some other bench player into that role rather than telling his starters "switch everything you've been doing up til this point"....Pero was also Pero because his skillset and ability dictated it,  not because Bud was asking him to do something outside of his comfort zone or less than his abilities. 

And yea, besides the only other proven rebounder on the bench who so far hasn't lived up to that billing being in a suit, it would be a real smart idea benching a guy that you'll have to have the pleasure of sitting across a table from come the next summer asking to re-sign.  I'm sure he'd forget about that incident altogether.  Maybe a PBO  can say it was all a misunderstanding but a PBO who happens to be the coach that benched you would have a harder time at this.