Official Game Preview: Magic at Hawks - The Big Payback?

[macdaddy]

58 minutes ago, kg01 said:

With the way we've responded vs teams missing key starters, yep that pretty much guarantees a Bulls win.

What is it that folks think Ferry would've done differently up until now?

I don't think Ferry would have sat on his hands at the last trade deadline when the Cavs loaded up their bench for the playoffs.    Of course, maybe Bud's hands were tied by management I don't know.   I also don't think Ferry would have had an offseason of Holiday, Hardaway, and Splitter.   

Ferry's short track record with the Hawks saw him getting great value in the deals he did.   Bud's deals so far are the opposite and look so-so to bad.   I love Bud but he has a lot to prove as the big man in charge of everything and I think he deserves criticism until he proves his abilities.    Right now we have way too many development projects with limited potential and we're getting beaten by teams that have more raw nba talent.     

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't think Ferry would have sat on his hands at the last trade deadline when the Cavs loaded up their bench for the playoffs.    Of course, maybe Bud's hands were tied by management I don't know.   I also don't think Ferry would have had an offseason of Holiday, Hardaway, and Splitter.   

Ferry's short track record with the Hawks saw him getting great value in the deals he did.   Bud's deals so far are the opposite and look so-so to bad.   I love Bud but he has a lot to prove as the big man in charge of everything and I think he deserves criticism until he proves his abilities.    Right now we have way too many development projects with limited potential and we're getting beaten by teams that have more raw nba talent.     

I hear you.  Don't get me wrong, I want us to hire a real GM (not realgm).  I just don't think Ferry would've done much significantly different, including the meh offseason additions.

[hawkman]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't think Ferry would have sat on his hands at the last trade deadline when the Cavs loaded up their bench for the playoffs.    Of course, maybe Bud's hands were tied by management I don't know.   I also don't think Ferry would have had an offseason of Holiday, Hardaway, and Splitter.   

Ferry's short track record with the Hawks saw him getting great value in the deals he did.   Bud's deals so far are the opposite and look so-so to bad.   I love Bud but he has a lot to prove as the big man in charge of everything and I think he deserves criticism until he proves his abilities.    Right now we have way too many development projects with limited potential and we're getting beaten by teams that have more raw nba talent.     

Actually, he did exactly that after Al tore his pec. But in his defense, I think he was trying to tank the season. The Hawks ended up making the playoffs anyway and played well against the Pacers if I remember correctly.

[Guest]

We'll never know if Ferry would have made a move or not last season now will we. We had just completed an undefeated January

Time to move on and LET IT GO!! He gone.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Actually, he did exactly that after Al tore his pec. But in his defense, I think he was trying to tank the season. The Hawks ended up making the playoffs anyway and played well against the Pacers if I remember correctly.

That was the right thing to do that year when we weren't trying to contend.   But in a season where at the trade deadline we had pretty much locked up the #1 seed, to do nothing to bolster the bench was inexcusable and it killed us in the playoffs.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That was the right thing to do that year when we weren't trying to contend.   But in a season where at the trade deadline we had pretty much locked up the #1 seed, to do nothing to bolster the bench was inexcusable and it killed us in the playoffs.  

What move would you have made at the trade deadline last season?

[macdaddy]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

What move would you have made at the trade deadline last season?

Come on @JayBirdHawk  you know i have no idea!   But seriously I think we could have gotten something decent for the bench so we didn't have to watch Mack, Scott, and Moose try to beat the Cavs.

The cavs got Shump, JR and received a 1st round pick for essentially Dion Waiters in a 3 team deal.   I certainly think we could have gotten involved in those discussions with the Knicks and at the very least thrown a monkey wrench in the deal for the cavs.   We traded our 1st this year for Hardaway.   Seems like we could have just traded it at the deadline along with scraps for Shump.  

Anyway, hindsight I know but the fact remains that the Cavs added 3 high quality NBA rotation players to an already stacked team and we did nothing.    3 players they acquired mid season without giving up much.  3 players that killed us in the playoffs.   We did nothing but jettison our most recent first round pick.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Come on @JayBirdHawk  you know i have no idea!   But seriously I think we could have gotten something decent for the bench so we didn't have to watch Mack, Scott, and Moose try to beat the Cavs.

The cavs got Shump, JR and received a 1st round pick for essentially Dion Waiters in a 3 team deal.   I certainly think we could have gotten involved in those discussions with the Knicks and at the very least thrown a monkey wrench in the deal for the cavs.   We traded our 1st this year for Hardaway.   Seems like we could have just traded it at the deadline along with scraps for Shump.  

Anyway, hindsight I know but the fact remains that the Cavs added 3 high quality NBA rotation players to an already stacked team and we did nothing.    3 players they acquired mid season without giving up much.  3 players that killed us in the playoffs.   We did nothing but jettison our most recent first round pick.

LOL...Cavs had a TPE to absorb the contracts.  Hawks didn't.  

Who should we have traded?  We weren't trading a starter.  Only Schröder and Baze had any value. Nobody was clamoring for our other bench players.

 

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We'll never know if Ferry would have made a move or not last season now will we. We had just completed an undefeated January

Time to move on and LET IT GO!! He gone.

This.

[AHF]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's not the play that Bud draws up - it's the players execution.  Too many time the fub the ball, don't catch it cleanly and sometimes not even get a shot off.  The players get quivering sphincters.

It is both, IMO.  I look at the execution on out of bounds plays under Woody then Drew then Bud and I see huge differences even with very similar rosters.  I think there is something to the way the players are drilled on these plays that made Drew successful to a much higher degree than either Woody or Bud on those plays.

[macdaddy]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

LOL...Cavs had a TPE to absorb the contracts.  Hawks didn't.  

Who should we have traded?  We weren't trading a starter.  Only Schröder and Baze had any value. Nobody was clamoring for our other bench players.

 

Yea.  I realize i'm totally ignorant when it comes to a lot of this stuff.   But the Knicks didn't want anything for those guys.

Quote

Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and 2019 second round pick to the Knicks. New York will also receive forward Lance Thomas from Oklahoma City.

 You don't think we could have given the Knicks better value than that?   Baze, Brand, Moose, Mack and our 2015 1st for JR/Shump?   That's not better than Amundson, Kirk, Thomas and a 2019 2nd rounder?

Again.  I have no idea if this was even possible but looking at what the Knicks took back in that trade it's hard to imagine we couldn't have gotten involved somehow.    Instead we let our one challenger get much better while we stood pat and rested on our 3 months of excellence laurels.   That doesn't win championships.

But do you ever notice how the Cavs or Heat or Lakers always seem to find away around these restrictions that seem to paralyze the Hawks?  

Quote

On July 21, the Cleveland Cavaliers signed rookie Joe Harris to a contract, leaving them $1.6 million in cap space. The team then embarked on a convoluted and complicated journey that included five trades, eight second-round picks, two first-round picks, five delayed signings and $1 million in cash. This twisted voyage led them to Wednesday's trade for Timofey Mozgov.

The Cavs' front office, led by general manager David Griffin, has been aggressive in creating assets and spending money to build a team around LeBron James. The trail of maneuvers and contractual timing that enabled the Mozgov move was costly but quite creative.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12136574/nba-how-did-cleveland-cavaliers-get-timofey-mozgov

 

I'm not really that interested in reliving the past and i don't care or know that Ferry would have done better.   But I think in evaluating whether we are currently doing the right thing to build this franchise, we need to look at what we did wrong and what the successful teams are doing.  

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yea.  I realize i'm totally ignorant when it comes to a lot of this stuff.   But the Knicks didn't want anything for those guys.

 You don't think we could have given the Knicks better value than that?   Baze, Brand, Moose, Mack and our 2015 1st for JR/Shump?   That's not better than Amundson, Kirk, Thomas and a 2019 2nd rounder?

Again.  I have no idea if this was even possible but looking at what the Knicks took back in that trade it's hard to imagine we couldn't have gotten involved somehow.    Instead we let our one challenger get much better while we stood pat and rested on our 3 months of excellence laurels.   That doesn't win championships.

But do you ever notice how the Cavs or Heat or Lakers always seem to find away around these restrictions that seem to paralyze the Hawks?  

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12136574/nba-how-did-cleveland-cavaliers-get-timofey-mozgov

 

I'm not really that interested in reliving the past and i don't care or know that Ferry would have done better.   But I think in evaluating whether we are currently doing the right thing to build this franchise, we need to look at what we did wrong and what the successful teams are doing.  

 

 

I don't remember what JR and Shump's salary was then, but I don't think we had enough space under the cap to get them even if we traded the guys you mentioned.

 

[macdaddy]

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't remember what JR and Shump's salary was then, but I don't think we had enough space under the cap to get them even if we traded the guys you mentioned.

 

Like you said it doesn't matter now but Shump was only 1.7 and JR was 5.5.   Brand was making 2 himself.    Getting both may have been out of reach but Shump definitely wasn't.