Morning Constitutional: Al Horford's Max Contract Stuff

[Guest]

Just now, Jody23 said:

He also said that this will be Schröder's team at some point.  I've never heard Viv go quite that far in an interview on the point guard subject.  This was the third time I've heard him state that Dennis got benched two games earlier in the season for "mouthing off".

He also said Teagues struggles this year are closely related to Korver's struggles.

I guess I can kinda see that from a spacing standpoint, however, Teague was a good player pre-Kyle so that can't be all the story.

Also, thanks for making me interested enough to listen in.  I tuned in just in time to hear the latest nut-hug fest on Brad Stevens and how the Celtics' chemistry is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wonderful and how a trade would've disrupted that, blah, blah, blah.  Yeah, that's the reason you didn't trade for Al huh?  Oh and did you know that Brad Stevens invented basketball.  They were going to use a square ball until Stevens chimed in, "Hey, I think a round ball would work best ...."  The rest was history.

Thanks for ruining my month, Jody

[Jody23]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I guess I can kinda see that from a spacing standpoint, however, Teague was a good player pre-Kyle so that can't be all the story.

Also, thanks for making me interested enough to listen in.  I tuned in just in time to hear the latest nut-hug fest on Brad Stevens and how the Celtics' chemistry is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wonderful and how a trade would've disrupted that, blah, blah, blah.  Yeah, that's the reason you didn't trade for Al huh?  Oh and did you know that Brad Stevens invented basketball.  They were going to use a square ball until Stevens chimed in, "Hey, I think a round ball would work best ...."  The rest was history.

Thanks for ruining my month, Jody

My pleasure 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just based on this season

See what other teams are offering Horford.  If one offers the max, counter by offering Al a 5yr/125 mill deal.  Do NOT go higher than that number.

If Al wants an opt out clause after year 3, give it to him ... only if he's willing to give us a team option after year 4.  This will essentially guarantee him 100 mill in the first 4 years.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I guess I can kinda see that from a spacing standpoint, however, Teague was a good player pre-Kyle so that can't be all the story.

Bear in mind here are some numbers in terms of Teague trends:

2013-14 - 17.1 PER, .098 WS/48, .541% TS%, 2.6 rpg, 6.7 apg, 2.9 topg, 1.3 spg, 

2014-15 - 20.6 PER, .166 WS/48, .566% TS%, 2.5 rpg, 7.0 apg, 2.8 topg, 2.0 spg 

2015-16 - 17.2 PER, .106 WS/48, .544% TS%, 2.6 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.8 topg, 1.7 spg

 

I'm not seeing tons of variation in the numbers except that Teague's shooting last season stands out as an outlier.  Assists and steals were both up a bit too but the shooting is the one that really stands out and drives the 'advanced' metrics.  Both 13-14 and 15-16 are right around his career .543% TS%.

[macdaddy]

19 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Celtics play by play guy on right now basically saying that Horford is probably their main target in free agency.

I'll say this, Hawks better do something to improve this team prior to free agency.  If Horford is not just about the money and really wants to win, the Hawks better convince him of that if they want to keep him.

We have to get a real wing in here or we're going nowhere.  

[Jody23]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

We have to get a real wing in here or we're going nowhere.  

Agreed.  I'm thinking they're going to have to do that and then some if they're going to show they're really serious about winning as opposed to the status quo of just being good enough.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

Bear in mind here are some numbers in terms of Teague trends:

2013-14 - 17.1 PER, .098 WS/48, .541% TS%, 2.6 rpg, 6.7 apg, 2.9 topg, 1.3 spg, 

2014-15 - 20.6 PER, .166 WS/48, .566% TS%, 2.5 rpg, 7.0 apg, 2.8 topg, 2.0 spg 

2015-16 - 17.2 PER, .106 WS/48, .544% TS%, 2.6 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.8 topg, 1.7 spg

 

I'm not seeing tons of variation in the numbers except that Teague's shooting last season stands out as an outlier.  Assists and steals were both up a bit too but the shooting is the one that really stands out and drives the 'advanced' metrics.  Both 13-14 and 15-16 are right around his career .543% TS%.

So .... in other words ..... you ... agree with me?  Ah, I get it now.

CViv bka @hawksfanatic , as usual, is full of it.

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, kg01 said:

So .... in other words ..... you ... agree with me?  Ah, I get it now.

CViv bka @hawksfanatic , as usual, is full of it.

Just saying that I don't think Teague has been so different this year compared to what we have seen the rest of his career.  It is last year that stands out as the atypical season.  I hope he can get back there but don't think we just assume last season is his baseline and he'll return to that level if he just gets healthy or if Kyle hits a few more shots or if Horford grabs a few more rebounds or if the sun shines through the Staff of Ra at just the right time of day revealing the Well of Souls and springing Teague's game.

[NBASupes]

He has been better when healthy, that much I will say.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

So .... in other words ..... you ... agree with me?  Ah, I get it now.

CViv bka @hawksfanatic , as usual, is full of it.

What is going on here?

Oh wait no nevermind I think I get it already. Just bidnizz as usual.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, hawksfanatic said:

What is going on here?

Oh wait no nevermind I think I get it already. Just bidnizz as usual.

You forgot you were accused of being CViv undercover

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You forgot you were accused of being CViv undercover

Thems fight'un words, breh.

[benhillboy]

After some education and hearing some opinions here, on the radio, and TV (Lang Whitaker and the mafia looking front office guy on ESPN among others), I'm starting to accept Al at the "max."  Slowly.  We'll still be able to look at Dennis on a steal of a deal next year.

I dislike his game's evolution and am scared to death about his pec reoccurring but I've warmed up to the notion of him being a "cornerstone" more so than "THE Guy" as the Max has traditionally been implied as representing to dummies like me.  It's only American he get handsomely rewarded for his tenure and how he beasted for years out of position for peanuts.  Bud and Wilcox will likely put provisions in for the pec injury anyway if that's possibe.  Excuse my ignorance if it isn't.

I've accepted that he's made the decision to be a lower-impact player who will drift away from the basket a little more each year.  I definately don't have to like it, but it's more than likely a smart decision for his longevity.  No player is perfect, but I'd be lying if I said his passing, intelligence, and jumpshooting aren't integral to what Bud is trying to do.

He damn well better help us acquire more talent, though.  Whatever he has to do: take a slight, itty bitty discount  or structure in favor of another FA, fly out to help woo a guy, or accept an indecent proposal for his wife (kidding). But you get me.  Much more than Joe supposedly promised to do.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

After some education and hearing some opinions here, on the radio, and TV (Lang Whitaker and the mafia looking front office guy on ESPN among others), I'm starting to accept Al at the "max."  Slowly.  We'll still be able to look at Dennis on a steal of a deal next year.

I dislike his game's evolution and am scared to death about his pec reoccurring but I've warmed up to the notion of him being a "cornerstone" more so than "THE Guy" as the Max has traditionally been implied as representing to dummies like me.  It's only American he get handsomely rewarded for his tenure and how he beasted for years out of position for peanuts.  Bud and Wilcox will likely put provisions in for the pec injury anyway if that's possibe.  Excuse my ignorance if it isn't.

I've accepted that he's made the decision to be a lower-impact player who will drift away from the basket a little more each year.  I definately don't have to like it, but it's more than likely a smart decision for his longevity.  No player is perfect, but I'd be lying if I said his passing, intelligence, and jumpshooting aren't integral to what Bud is trying to do.

He damn well better help us acquire more talent, though.  Whatever he has to do: take a slight, itty bitty discount  or structure in favor of another FA, fly out to help woo a guy, or accept an indecent proposal for his wife (kidding). But you get me.  Much more than Joe supposedly promised to do.

Bud has always said that Al is a player they want to build WITH, he's never said build AROUND.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Bud has always said that Al is a player they want to build WITH, he's never said build AROUND.

The problem is how many rings have gone to teams without someone to build around?  That puts us in the uncomfortable spots of having a handful of guys who are now "max" contract guys in this era but none of whom are good enough to build around.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

The problem is how many rings have gone to teams without someone to build around?  That puts us in the uncomfortable spots of having a handful of guys who are now "max" contract guys in this era but none of whom are good enough to build around.

Take a look around the league, there are so many 'max' contract guys it's annoying.  The new TV deal is the cause of it all.  So you either play the game or you don't.

[benhillboy]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Take a look around the league, there are so many 'max' contract guys it's annoying.  The new TV deal is the cause of it all.  So you either play the game or you don't.

This is what I have learned to accept, crying and screaming.  To quote my most hated idiom, "it is what it is."  It ain't and never will be my money, players from a generation ago have real reason to be miffed about all this seemingly misappropriated Kanter money.

I just want the best team for the money, duh.  Pretty stupid of me to think Bud and Willy don't want the same.  

[Guest]

Will you two shutup and read what I've already ranted about with "The Max" ffs.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

Will you two shutup and read what I've already ranted about with "The Max" ffs.

You did give the board some great information on Horford's max in this thread.  We just don't want your head to get too big.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

You did give the board some great information on Horford's max in this thread.  We just don't want your head to get too big.

You calling me Shelden Williams here?