Official Game Thread: Hawks at Raptors

[Dnice]

92 and 93?...lol

[Hawkmoor]

2 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

Have you watched the last month of th...

 

forget it...nevermind

And therein is the problem.  The SEASON.  The playoffs is a different thing.  Defenses extend. Toronto gave a preview last night.

[Guest]

There's a whole lot of double talk in here. Either the regular season matters or it doesn't.  Or either previous playoffs performances matter or they don't.  Can't have it both ways.

Just like the call for Atlanta to prove it in the playoffs, it's even more so for Toronto.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Didn't say it did ...I'm pissed so I'm going to express it regular season or not and I'm just acknowledging that Hawks loss this regular season game strictly due to free throws and bad officiating ONLY. Refs deceided the game before Atlanta even arrived in Toronto.

You missed the sarcasm - maybe my wording wasn't clear.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

And therein is the problem.  The SEASON.  The playoffs is a different thing.  Defenses extend. Toronto gave a preview last night.

You just contradicted yourself...lol...wow.

 

So last night's game at Toronto was a playoff game? 

 

Get this $hit straight when I get back cuz ur all bamboozled.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There's a whole lot of double talk in here. Either the regular season matters or it doesn't.  Or either previous playoffs performances matter or they don't.  Can't have it both ways.

Just like the call for Atlanta to prove it in the playoffs, it's even more so for Toronto.

But mommy, why can't I have both pizza and hamburgers for dinner?...:-/

 

Lotta dip$hit posts in here I'm about as fed up as you...smh...

SERENITY NOW-Frank Costanza

[Hawkmoor]

11 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There's a whole lot of double talk in here. Either the regular season matters or it doesn't.  Or either previous playoffs performances matter or they don't.  Can't have it both ways.

Just like the call for Atlanta to prove it in the playoffs, it's even more so for Toronto.

The Hawks have been in Atlanta since 1970 without a championship.  Toronto has been in the league since 1995, and you say Toronto has more to prove??? Atlanta has the SECOND longest playoff streak in the league behind the Spurs. Thats a LOT of post season failure, and you wonder WHY people dont give two cents about the Hawks in the regular season??  Then, you say Toronto has more to prove??

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

The Hawks have been in Atlanta since 1970 without a championship.  Toronto has been in the league since 1995, and you say Toronto has more to prove??? Atlanta has the SECOND longest playoff streak in the league behind the Spurs. Thats a LOT of post season failure, and you wonder WHY people dont give two cents about the Hawks in the regular season??  Then, you say Toronto has more to prove??

 

Well if we're gonna go all the way back to when Nasmith invented basketball..........

This is what I call being intentionally obtuse.

[Hawkmoor]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Well if we're gonna go all the way back to when Nasmith invented basketball..........

This is what I call being intentionally obtuse.

It is what it is with the Hawks. The Hawks have a CURRENT playoff streak, second only to the Spurs. We not talking about the past, we talking about NOW.  The Spurs PROVED themselves, people are waiting on the Hawks.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

It is what it is with the Hawks. The Hawks have a CURRENT playoff streak, second only to the Spurs. We not talking about the past, we talking about NOW.  The Spurs PROVED themselves, people are waiting on the Hawks.

Make up your mind.

Like I said previously.....contradictions galore.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Make up your mind.

Like I said previously.....contradictions galore.

Actually I said that but go on wicha bad self...

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

It is what it is with the Hawks. The Hawks have a CURRENT playoff streak, second only to the Spurs. We not talking about the past, we talking about NOW.  The Spurs PROVED themselves, people are waiting on the Hawks.

Man, what are you talking about?  It's like you're using facts but using them improperly.  You have to look deeper than the surface on this thing.  In what year did the Hawks lose a series they were favored in?  Actually, nevermind ...

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Man, what are you talking about?  It's like you're using facts but using them improperly.  You have to look deeper than the surface on this thing.  In what year did the Hawks lose a series they were favored in?  Actually, nevermind ...

I was just about to ask this very question - when have the Hawks EVER been favored in a playoff matchup and lost?

[AHF]

There is some cognitive dissonance here but this what explains it:

You've got some Hawks fans who think the past history influences the future - whether it is karma, psychological, whatever - and it is the past of their own team that overrides everything else.  Logically, if you focus on Toronto they are less proven than the Hawks in the playoffs and haven't done jack squat.  

However, those posters are totally ignoring Toronto and focusing on Atlanta.  Their view on Atlanta is basically "if something can go wrong, it will...we are cursed" so if you are looking for objective analysis then of course it isn't there.  They are pointing out that Atlanta has one of the highest number of playoff appearances in NBA history but has never won a game outside of the first or second round so we are doomed.  The focus is on Atlanta -- not on Toronto or some other team.  The only way Toronto enters the thought process is how it could go wrong for Atlanta in a series against them.  

So when you start from the premise that the Hawks are doomed and you are just looking for the mechanism of failure -- focusing on regular season success against Atlanta is valid and ignoring Toronto's total lack of post-season success is fine because it is rendered irrelevant by Atlanta's inevitable doom.   

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

There is some cognitive dissonance here but this what explains it:

You've got some Hawks fans who think the past history influences the future - whether it is karma, psychological, whatever - and it is the past of their own team that overrides everything else.  Logically, if you focus on Toronto they are less proven than the Hawks in the playoffs and haven't done jack squat.  

However, those posters are totally ignoring Toronto and focusing on Atlanta.  Their view on Atlanta is basically "if something can go wrong, it will...we are cursed" so if you are looking for objective analysis then of course it isn't there.  They are pointing out that Atlanta has one of the highest number of playoff appearances in NBA history but has never won a game outside of the first or second round so we are doomed.  The focus is on Atlanta -- not on Toronto or some other team.  The only way Toronto enters the thought process is how it could go wrong for Atlanta in a series against them.  

So when you start from the premise that the Hawks are doomed and you are just looking for the mechanism of failure -- focusing on regular season success against Atlanta is valid and ignoring Toronto's total lack of post-season success is fine because it is rendered irrelevant by Atlanta's inevitable doom.   

But that's just it they are not ignoring  Toronto.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

There is some cognitive dissonance here but this what explains it:

You've got some Hawks fans who think the past history influences the future - whether it is karma, psychological, whatever - and it is the past of their own team that overrides everything else.  Logically, if you focus on Toronto they are less proven than the Hawks in the playoffs and haven't done jack squat.  

However, those posters are totally ignoring Toronto and focusing on Atlanta.  Their view on Atlanta is basically "if something can go wrong, it will...we are cursed" so if you are looking for objective analysis then of course it isn't there.  They are pointing out that Atlanta has one of the highest number of playoff appearances in NBA history but has never won a game outside of the first or second round so we are doomed.  The focus is on Atlanta -- not on Toronto or some other team.  The only way Toronto enters the thought process is how it could go wrong for Atlanta in a series against them.  

So when you start from the premise that the Hawks are doomed and you are just looking for the mechanism of failure -- focusing on regular season success against Atlanta is valid and ignoring Toronto's total lack of post-season success is fine because it is rendered irrelevant by Atlanta's inevitable doom.   

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

There is some cognitive dissonance here but this what explains it:

You've got some Hawks fans who think the past history influences the future - whether it is karma, psychological, whatever - and it is the past of their own team that overrides everything else.  Logically, if you focus on Toronto they are less proven than the Hawks in the playoffs and haven't done jack squat.  

However, those posters are totally ignoring Toronto and focusing on Atlanta.  Their view on Atlanta is basically "if something can go wrong, it will...we are cursed" so if you are looking for objective analysis then of course it isn't there.  They are pointing out that Atlanta has one of the highest number of playoff appearances in NBA history but has never won a game outside of the first or second round so we are doomed.  The focus is on Atlanta -- not on Toronto or some other team.  The only way Toronto enters the thought process is how it could go wrong for Atlanta in a series against them.  

So when you start from the premise that the Hawks are doomed and you are just looking for the mechanism of failure -- focusing on regular season success against Atlanta is valid and ignoring Toronto's total lack of post-season success is fine because it is rendered irrelevant by Atlanta's inevitable doom.   

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I was just about to ask this very question - when have the Hawks EVER been favored in a playoff matchup and lost?

The Hawks have had some bad beats in the playoffs - sometimes in terms of seeding, sometimes just in terms of the brutality of the loss in a series where things should have been close.

2014-15 #1 Seed in the East - Swept by #2 Seed

2011-12 40 win Hawks lose 4-2 to 39 win Celtics

2009-10 #3 Seed Hawks suffer worst sweep in NBA history to #2 Seed Magic (doing much worse than #7 seed did in round 1)

1998-99 #4 Seed Hawks swept brutally by #8 seed Knicks

1997-98 #5 Seed Hawks lose 3-1 to #4 Seed hornets

1993-94 #1 Seed Hawks lose 4-2 to #5 Seed Pacers

 

There are more but these stand out as some ugly ones for me.  I get where someone has an emotional reaction like - "man, we can't even win a game beyond the second round when we are the freaking #1 seed."

 

Reality is that we overall perform about as expected.  There are some seasons when we overachieve a bit and some where we fall on our face but we are generally not a real contender and flame out as an also-ran in the playoffs.  Doesn't doom us to repeat that failure with different players, coach and GM.

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

But that's just it they are not ignoring  Toronto.

I think they only see Toronto as the instrument of our inevitable doom.  Thus the reference to other sports even where Atlanta teams lost to other cities in circumstances where they arguably should have won.  What relevance does any of this discussion have other than reinforcing the narrative that the Hawks are doomed?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

The Hawks have had some bad beats in the playoffs - sometimes in terms of seeding, sometimes just in terms of the brutality of the loss in a series where things should have been close.

2014-15 #1 Seed in the East - Swept by #2 Seed

2011-12 40 win Hawks lose 4-2 to 39 win Celtics

2009-10 #3 Seed Hawks suffer worst sweep in NBA history to #2 Seed Magic (doing much worse than #7 seed did in round 1)

1998-99 #4 Seed Hawks swept brutally by #8 seed Knicks

1997-98 #5 Seed Hawks lose 3-1 to #4 Seed hornets

1993-94 #1 Seed Hawks lose 4-2 to #5 Seed Pacers

 

There are more but these stand out as some ugly ones for me.  I get where someone has an emotional reaction like - "man, we can't even win a game beyond the second round when we are the freaking #1 seed."

 

Reality is that we overall perform about as expected.  There are some seasons when we overachieve a bit and some where we fall on our face but we are generally not a real contender and flame out as an also-ran in the playoffs.  Doesn't doom us to repeat that failure with different players, coach and GM.

I think they only see Toronto as the instrument of our inevitable doom.  Thus the reference to other sports even where Atlanta teams lost to other cities in circumstances where they arguably should have won.  What relevance does any of this discussion have other than reinforcing the narrative that the Hawks are doomed?

98-99 was really the only upset. The rest to me were not upsets at all. I watched all of those series closely. I would include 93-94 loss to Pacers but that was the bs Danny Manning karma year.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

The Hawks have had some bad beats in the playoffs - sometimes in terms of seeding, sometimes just in terms of the brutality of the loss in a series where things should have been close.

2014-15 #1 Seed in the East - Swept by #2 Seed

2011-12 40 win Hawks lose 4-2 to 39 win Celtics

2009-10 #3 Seed Hawks suffer worst sweep in NBA history to #2 Seed Magic (doing much worse than #7 seed did in round 1)

1998-99 #4 Seed Hawks swept brutally by #8 seed Knicks

1997-98 #5 Seed Hawks lose 3-1 to #4 Seed hornets

1993-94 #1 Seed Hawks lose 4-2 to #5 Seed Pacers

 

There are more but these stand out as some ugly ones for me.  I get where someone has an emotional reaction like - "man, we can't even win a game beyond the second round when we are the freaking #1 seed."

 

Reality is that we overall perform about as expected.  There are some seasons when we overachieve a bit and some where we fall on our face but we are generally not a real contender and flame out as an also-ran in the playoffs.  Doesn't doom us to repeat that failure with different players, coach and GM.

I think they only see Toronto as the instrument of our inevitable doom.  Thus the reference to other sports even where Atlanta teams lost to other cities in circumstances where they arguably should have won.  What relevance does any of this discussion have other than reinforcing the narrative that the Hawks are doomed?

I'm not disputing that we've had HORRIBLE losses. My question is were they the favorites to beat the other team?