Vivlamore on 92.9

[tonegully]

C-Viv is terrible. I just wanted to point that out.

[macdaddy]

2 hours ago, Thomas said:

Viv is where the saying "consider the source" comes from in reference to Bud nixing one or more trades. No one knew Mack and Holiday would be gone in Feb. Expecting Bud to even hint or leak that type of  information is futile.

There was speculation that Mack could be traded since we obviously didn't need him.   Why we chose to trade him for nothing i have no idea.  

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

There was speculation that Mack could be traded since we obviously didn't need him.   Why we chose to trade him for nothing i have no idea.  

That second round pick we passed on for Kirk looks good right now.

[macdaddy]

30 minutes ago, AHF said:

That second round pick we passed on for Kirk looks good right now.

Looking back Bud wanted to open a roster spot to eventually sign a replacement for Splitter.   So rather than just waive Mack we do this stupid deal and lose a 2nd rounder.    Not that i care that much about 2nd rounder except most of our team is second rounders.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Looking back Bud wanted to open a roster spot to eventually sign a replacement for Splitter.   So rather than just waive Mack we do this stupid deal and lose a 2nd rounder.    Not that i care that much about 2nd rounder except most of our team is second rounders.

Agreed.  The roster spot was going to be opened either way once we dealt Mack.  Holliday was someone we could cut or trade.  Bud felt we needed a 3rd PG and that the 2nd was a fair price.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Looking back Bud wanted to open a roster spot to eventually sign a replacement for Splitter.   So rather than just waive Mack we do this stupid deal and lose a 2nd rounder.    Not that i care that much about 2nd rounder except most of our team is second rounders.

 

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agreed.  The roster spot was going to be opened either way once we dealt Mack.  Holliday was someone we could cut or trade.  Bud felt we needed a 3rd PG and that the 2nd was a fair price.

We didn't trade a second rounder.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Watchman said:

I'm told Josh....

This will never get old.

[Guest]

Two things I know for sure:

1.  We aren't beating Lebron and the Cavs in the next few years unless Durant replaces Bazemore (and that's not happening).

2.  We are not tanking and bottoming out by trading ALL our veteran players for picks and young players.

Everything else is up for grabs.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, hawksfanatic said:

 

We didn't trade a second rounder.

We did a trade in which Utah took Mack and gave up a 2nd round pick.  That pick went to Chicago.  We could have not included Chicago in the trade at all and kept the pick.  

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

We did a trade in which Utah took Mack and gave up a 2nd round pick.  That pick went to Chicago.  We could have not included Chicago in the trade at all and kept the pick.  

Well see, they didn't.

You're just being an insufferable fan here. You're creating a fake 2nd rounder that we traded away (didn't happen) but then in separate threads throughout this season you'll have a temper tantrum about the Tim Hardaway Junior trade (but fail to mention the Hawks picked up two of these precious 2nd rounders in that trade). So they're damned if they trade them away (but didn't actually trade any away) and forgotten about if they are actually traded for. Not to mention both trades clearly make the team better off with respect to the cap.

Gee, the Hogs canned do nothing write!

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

Well see, they didn't.

You're just being an insufferable fan here. You're creating a fake 2nd rounder that we traded away (didn't happen) but then in separate threads throughout this season you'll have a temper tantrum about the Tim Hardaway Junior trade (but fail to mention the Hawks picked up two of these precious 2nd rounders in that trade). So they're damned if they trade them away (but didn't actually trade any away) and forgotten about if they are actually traded for. Not to mention both trades clearly make the team better off with respect to the cap.

Gee, the Hogs canned do nothing write!

He's not being an insufferable fan.  He's just being himself (ohhhh).

In his defense, he's not anti-Hawks he's just showing his (continued) hatred for THJr.  The obsession is becoming Cape Fear-esque.

Speaking of Cape Fear, I'll be in your neck of the woods again soon.  Between you and @Gray Mule, I expect a bbq in my honor.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, hawksfanatic said:

Well see, they didn't.

You're just being an insufferable fan here. You're creating a fake 2nd rounder that we traded away (didn't happen) but then in separate threads throughout this season you'll have a temper tantrum about the Tim Hardaway Junior trade (but fail to mention the Hawks picked up two of these precious 2nd rounders in that trade). So they're damned if they trade them away (but didn't actually trade any away) and forgotten about if they are actually traded for. Not to mention both trades clearly make the team better off with respect to the cap.

Gee, the Hogs canned do nothing write!

I've mentioned those 2 2nds in the Junior trade at least a dozen times.  Need I call up a string of posts again?  I hope not.  That trade was criticized by me (1) because THJr and 2 2nds isn't worth the #15 overall and (2) because THJr delivered more DNP-CDs than decent games and is now a single season from RFA.  Of course, that deal is utterly irrelevant to this thread.

The point people are making here is that we traded an asset that Utah valued a LOT more (as demonstrated by minutes played) than we valued Kirk (as demonstrated by minutes played) and now we have nothing to show for it.  As usual, you ignore that point and focus on whether the 2nd round pick technically went to Atlanta and then was flipped to Chicago or whether it was a 3 team trade and passed directly from Utah to Chicago.  As usual, the technicality is irrelevant since we had our choice between the 2nd round pick and adding Holliday to the deal to get Kirk.  It is, once again, a distinction without a difference.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

The point people are making here is that we traded an asset that Utah valued a LOT more (as demonstrated by minutes played) than we valued Kirk (as demonstrated by minutes played) and now we have nothing to show for it.

Yeah......... No. You see, this doesn't make any sense.

Hawks cleared salary for this season and next. They also gained flexibility to stay over the cap the entire...

Nevermind. Whatever I say you're going to poo-poo it and I'll have wasted my time in explaining things.

 

[Guest]

Oh dear - thread derailment.

I will  post Zach Klein's radio interview elsewhere.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Oh dear - thread derailment.

I will  post Zach Klein's radio interview elsewhere.

Lol, gonna be a long offseason.

Klein can DIAF.  Hate that guy.

[AHF]

55 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

Yeah......... No. You see, this doesn't make any sense.

Hawks cleared salary for this season and next. They also gained flexibility to stay over the cap the entire...

Nevermind. Whatever I say you're going to poo-poo it and I'll have wasted my time in explaining things.

 

They cleared a veterans minimum salary with Holiday for next year.  No argument there.  I guess you could argue he is a negative value player and you have to pay another team to take on his minimum salary.

Mack's 2.4M and the roster spot is cleared under either scenario.

Then you add Kirk's salary and by including the Bulls in the equation you actually add salary for 2015-16 (-Mack versus -Mack -Holiday + Kirk) since Kirk makes more than twice what Holiday did for 2015-16.  For next year, you clear Holiday's minimum.

[macdaddy]

19 hours ago, AHF said:

They cleared a veterans minimum salary with Holiday for next year.  No argument there.  I guess you could argue he is a negative value player and you have to pay another team to take on his minimum salary.

Mack's 2.4M and the roster spot is cleared under either scenario.

Then you add Kirk's salary and by including the Bulls in the equation you actually add salary for 2015-16 (-Mack versus -Mack -Holiday + Kirk) since Kirk makes more than twice what Holiday did for 2015-16.  For next year, you clear Holiday's minimum.

Yeah so couldn't we have just cut one of them and saved the same amount and kept one of them on the roster?     We wouldn't have Hinrich but there again, we wouldn't have Hinrich. 

[AHF]

45 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yeah so couldn't we have just cut one of them and saved the same amount and kept one of them on the roster?     We wouldn't have Hinrich but there again, we wouldn't have Hinrich. 

Unless I am missing something, the options were:

Trade Mack for a 2nd + 2015-16 and 2016-17 cap room - Sign Humphries for wha he got or slightly more if you want (you save more money for 2015-16 if you sign Humph to the same deal) and reduce 2016-17 cap by Mack's salary

or

Trade Mack and Holiday for Kirk - Sign Humphries for what he got and reduce the 2016-17 cap by Mack and Holiday's salary

It nets out to be essentially giving up the opportunity for a 2nd round pick in exchange for dumping Holiday and having a 3rd string PG you don't plan to play a single meaningful minute