With Whiz, Jeff! Ask for One With Whiz!

[Twinblade]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Not really if you think of it from PHI's perspective.  Remember it's not just what we want.

Teague for Noel is enough, Teague for Noel is actually more than enough. But your right, it's not just what we want, like draft picks, which Bud seems to hate. Lol.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Brah, I already posted this trade on the trade forum about a month ago. If you gonna copy my shit, then cite your sources and don't pawn the ideas of gas your own. #originator1stplace

Lol get 'im, Spud2.

Just now, Twinblade said:

Teague for Noel is enough, Teague for Noel is actually more than enough. But your right, it's not just what we want, like draft picks, which Bud seems to hate. Lol.

I do agree that our apparent abhorring of draft picks is an issue.

[Twinblade]

Just now, kg01 said:

Lol get 'im, Spud2.

I do agree that our apparent abhorring of draft picks is an issue.

Bud rather waste our draft picks, which is why I think our first round pick could end up going with teague for Noel. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

How Sway? If we give him the max, how does this team get better? When will we find a proper starting SF. If Bazemore leaves that's 2 spots that need to be filled. I think Ferry messed up giving players 2 year contracts and now we can't keep the team together long enough to see how good they truly could become.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

@nathan2331I've already outlined how we can still pay Horford and still make the neccessary moves to sign one of Beal, Barnes or Fournier to their max deals or even Baze. 

No,  Ferry did not mess up - the rules of the CBA regarding the number of years you can sign someone using the Lower Level exception is 2 years, which was what we used to sign both DMC and Bazemore.  We would have needed capspace to sign them for longer deals which we didn't have.

 

[Bankingitbig]

12 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I was sort of excited when I started reading about this.  I haven't seen Nerlins play that much, but with everyone talking about his rebounding, I decided to look it up.  8.1 rebounds in 30 minutes average over his first two years?   That rebounding figure does not really excite me too much.  We need a 10+ rebounds per game guy.  Don't understand all the hoopla.

I think some of those #'s are impacted by Noel having to play alongside Okafor. On top of that, Noel would usually defend the 4 spot, which could bring him farther away from the basket. Trying to see if I can find Noel's stats with and without Okafor on the floor.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

Bud rather waste our draft picks, which is why I think our first round pick could end up going with teague for Noel. 

If it took a 1st to get us Noel+ ... I could forgive that.  Unfortunately, on the backdrop of having wasted so many 1st in the recent past, it feels worse than it is.

The only saving grace is that most of those wasted picks can be attributed to the prior GM.  So, so far, Wilcox has wasted what 1 1st-round pick?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

It's Paul Millsap that goes if the Hawks trade a big guys, they truly see Al Horford as the cornerstone of the franchise.

Have Supes take his hand out ur puppet a$$ for a minute...you need a break. #puppetshowhere

[Hawkmoor]

19 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Hawkmoor tried to put Millsap at the 3 again, guys. Not happening, ever.

Not a full time move, just something to throw a different look at Cleveland when Cleveland goes big against them. I saw the reports that said the Hawks werent happy with playing Sap at the 3, so, i have no problem with it either.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[Guest]

Paul Millsap and Nerlens Noel are the only players in the NBA that are top 15 in both blocks and steals. That's a pretty cool stat.

 

READ THAT TWICE!!!

[Sothron]

47 minutes ago, Diesel said:

No, I was using Anderson as an example.  OLD Horf eats Anderson for lunch... Maybe that's it.. maybe many of us are reminiscing about OLD HORF.  The guy who snagged rebounds from KG and who Punked Paul Pierce.  However, New Horf gives plays 36 minutes and gives us 1 or 2 rebounds?  Not just once or twice, but several times during the season and in the playoffs.   The New Horf shies away from contact in the paint.   The New Horf is on the 3 point line with his hands outstretched when we need somebody down low to get us sure points.  The New Horf is a shell of OLD HORF.  Therefore, when I look at the New Horf trying to be Dirk or Ryan Anderson.. I realize that this is about extending his career.   Horf is trying to transform himself into a stretch 4 because he wants to extend his career and get paid more.   If that be the case and the new softer, gentler Horf is what we have to look forward to, then I would rather pay Ryan Anderson 1/2 the money and get a better soft stretch 4.

It's time to get real Hawksquawk...  THE OLD HORF IS NOT WALKING THROUGH THAT DOOR.

 

I wish I could "love" a post instead of liking it. Maybe Diesel's best post on this site. He is 100% right. We are not talking about pre injury Horford and if we should keep him. We're talking about POST injury Horford that is too soft to get in there and fight like he used to. There is no way we should give current Horford a max deal and frankly I'd rather let him go and roll the dice with  Noel and Millsap.

[Hawkmoor]

36 minutes ago, Lurker said:

He truly believes that Horford does so many little things for the team that are underappreciated.

My problem with Horford is Horford is that toy that ALLOWS Bud to forego developing any type of post game for his bigs.  Sure, Horford allows Bud to spread the floor and get back in transition, but it does nothing for the Hawks when they go up against good rebounding teams or when the Hawks outside shots stop falling.   If Bud played Horford around the paint area like Pop does with Duncan, then this conversation wouldnt apply, but Bud rarely does that.

As far as the little things, Al doesnt do anything other than shoot 3s and get the OCCASSIONAL hustle board or drive to the rim.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[nathan2331]

@nathan2331I've already outlined how we can still pay Horford and still make the neccessary moves to sign one of Beal, Barnes or Fournier to their max deals or even Baze. 

No,  Ferry did not mess up - the rules of the CBA regarding the number of years you can sign someone using the Lower Level exception is 2 years, which was what we used to sign both DMC and Bazemore.  We would have needed capspace to sign them for longer deals which we didn't have.

 

I've seen that post, but if I'm understanding correctly, we can only get one wing along with Horford, not two. So if we lose Bazemore and replace him with Barnes or Fournier, we're barely improving (Beal isn't leaving Washington).

My problem with giving Horford the max is I question how we can get better. Horford is who he is. Teague is who he is. Millsap proved me wrong and improved this season but who's gonna do that again. If this team isn't good enough to at least challenge the Cavs how are we going to get there? Maxing Horford to me locks us into a team that's not good enough.

And I don't remember what our cap situation was when we signed Millsap, Carroll and Bazemore, but the reality is that without their bird rights it's difficult to retain them. Maybe it wasn't his fault, but it's hurting us now. As a team that doesn't have much talent to begin with we can't afford to lose players at all. Carroll is a very average SF and we can't even bring in a proper replacement because we don't have cap space. I've seen the ideas being thrown around, but the folks who want to max Horford aren't showing (me at least) how we can build a team that was better than last year.

[DS5]

36 minutes ago, kg01 said:

If it took a 1st to get us Noel+ ... I could forgive that.  Unfortunately, on the backdrop of having wasted so many 1st in the recent past, it feels worse than it is.

The only saving grace is that most of those wasted picks can be attributed to the prior GM.  So, so far, Wilcox has wasted what 1 1st-round pick?

How was last year's pick wasted? We still don't know what THJ will turn out to be, but there wasn't much in the draft either. Way I see it, we either came out on top or at the very least, it was a wash. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

I've seen that post, but if I'm understanding correctly, we can only get one wing along with Horford, not two. So if we lose Bazemore and replace him with Barnes or Fournier, we're barely improving (Beal isn't leaving Washington).

 

My problem with giving Horford the max is I question how we can get better. Horford is who he is. Teague is who he is. Millsap proved me wrong and improved this season but who's gonna do that again. If this team isn't good enough to at least challenge the Cavs how are we going to get there? Maxing Horford to me locks us into a team that's not good enough.

 

And I don't remember what our cap situation was when we signed Millsap, Carroll and Bazemore, but the reality is that without their bird rights it's difficult to retain them. Maybe it wasn't his fault, but it's hurting us now. As a team that doesn't have much talent to begin with we can't afford to lose players at all. Carroll is a very average SF and we can't even bring in a proper replacement because we don't have cap space. I've seen the ideas being thrown around, but the folks who want to max Horford aren't showing (me at least) how we can build a team that was better than last year.

@nathan2331

That's just it though. Giving Al a max deal does not prevent us from making moves this offseason.

Al's  caphold is $18, (that's what you use to figure out how much capspace is available, not the max amount). if we renounce Al to sign Barnes at $23 mil we have just reduced our working capspace by $5 mil. How much is left for Baze? We have $11 mil to left. Will he take it? 

Is that a better team?

 

[LastDon]

The Noel trade makes no sense, We don't need Noel because our frontcourt is fine and is not our main issue..I'm more than comfortable going into next season with Horford,Millsap, Humphries,Taveres..It wasn't those guys fault that Bud allowed Tristan Thompson to be a factor by playing Muscala and Scott games 1 and 2 in the Cavs series..When Humphries got appropriate minutes he contributed significantly on the boards in the playoffs and regular season...Noel would only be a replication of a strength and make us significantly weaker at the point guard position.. I don't see how it makes sense at all..Maybe both teams are just throwing bait  out there right now.. Teague is very available but shouldn't be dumped for a big...Teague should only be traded for a small forward or a mid lottery pick to acquire someone wit star potential like Jaylen Brown..

[Guest]

I imagine it's more an indication that this isn't the only move coming.  We can't trade one of the PG's for the wang help we need but we might be able to trade one of the frontcourt pieces.  Thusly, the Noel trade may be a means to that end.

And, no, our frontcourt isn't 'fine' if we want to actually win at a high level.

[nathan2331]

@nathan2331

That's just it though. Giving Al a max deal does not prevent us from making moves this offseason.

Al's  caphold is $18, (that's what you use to figure out how much capspace is available, not the max amount). if we renounce Al to sign Barnes at $23 mil we have just reduced our working capspace by $5 mil. How much is left for Baze? We have $11 mil to left. Will he take it? 

Is that a better team?

 

We're not on the same page. It doesn't matter what combination we could do, the result is we're not good enough. Bazemore + Barnes without Horford is bad. Barnes sure as hell isn't worth 23 million even if the market says so. There's no way I'm giving that to a guy who can't create his own offense or is an elite defender. I'm not accusing you of coming up with that but that's not what I want.

Bazemore + Horford without a proper SF leaves us with the same hole we had this season. This team showed we're not good enough to contend so why do the same exact thing. I don't want to lock us into 5 years of the same crap, how do we improve. No one has an answer for that.

If you give Horford the max you're saying that you like the team as currently composed and you think you can contend for the title. This Hawks team isn't that. Until we get a starting SF from a trade or otherwise, why should we bring this same team next season.

[LastDon]

I  take that back.. I can't necessarily say that I wouldn't dump Teague for a Big because I would for Okafor who has star potential..Hawks fans should realize what we have in Teague..He is an all star caliber player who is splitting time and is underutilized in only 28 mpg.. Trading Teague for Noel, I say hell to the no!  I jus don't think the minutes are there  for Noel to be uber productive and his lack of range and inability to make free throws doesn't fit our system..

Edited June 3, 2016 by LastDon

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

We're not on the same page. It doesn't matter what combination we could do, the result is we're not good enough. Bazemore + Barnes without Horford is bad. Barnes sure as hell isn't worth 23 million even if the market says so. There's no way I'm giving that to a guy who can't create his own offense or is an elite defender. I'm not accusing you of coming up with that but that's not what I want.

Bazemore + Horford without a proper SF leaves us with the same hole we had this season. This team showed we're not good enough to contend so why do the same exact thing. I don't want to lock us into 5 years of the same crap, how do we improve. No one has an answer for that.

If you give Horford the max you're saying that you like the team as currently composed and you think you can contend for the title. This Hawks team isn't that. Until we get a starting SF from a trade or otherwise, why should we bring this same team next season.

So tell me your plan for improving this team.

[DS5]

"Barnes sure as hell isn't worth 23 million even if the market says so" 

If the market doesn't determine one's price, what/who does?