With Whiz, Jeff! Ask for One With Whiz!

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I imagine it's more an indication that this isn't the only move coming.  We can't trade one of the PG's for the wang help we need but we might be able to trade one of the frontcourt pieces.  Thusly, the Noel trade may be a means to that end.

And, no, our frontcourt isn't 'fine' if we want to actually win at a high level.

Some serious captain obvious shit going on here...

Edited June 3, 2016 by Spud2Nique

[Sothron]

Market always determine the price. This whole "But but this isn't an All star why is he getting the max" is outdated thinking. No offense to anyone but it is just not relevant in today's NBA. Average starters are now getting max or near max deals. That is the reality of the NBA.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, LastDon said:

I  take that back.. I can't necessarily say that I wouldn't dump Teague for a Big because I would for Okafor who has star potential..Hawks fans should realize what we have in Teague..He is an all star caliber player who is splitting time and is underutilized in only 28 mpg.. Trading Teague for Noel, I say hell to the no!  I jus don't think the minutes are there  for Noel to be uber productive and his lack of range and inability to make free throws doesn't fit our system..

I do appreciate what Jeff brings.  However, as many have said, we can't be too married to our guys.  Clearly there's a ceiling on what the group, as currently constituted, can achieve.  Somebody's gotta get traded.  Picking up Noel and pieces for Jeff is actually not that bad a deal.

Then again, as I've said over and over again, I'm not sold on Okafor having 'star' potential.  He's got some growing to do and that's in addition to the off-court stuff.

[Alex]

When did the Hawks trade for Nerlens Noel?

[Lurker]

To sum things up from both sides with Hawks fans...

1. "Budenholzer is trapping Jeff Teague! If he went to him and granted him a lot of confidence saying that the backup PG will only take 12-14 of his minutes, he'd regain what confidence he used to have and be a 20 and 10 PG and perennial All Star!"
2. Thabo Sefolosha over Kyle Korver is the answer to challenging the Cavaliers. If that lineup had more chemistry they would have beaten the Cavaliers thanks to that lineup change!
3. Kyle Korver gets preferential treatment just because he's white! Tim Hardaway Jr is better than Kyle Korver right NOW!
4. Dennis Schröder is a selfish ballhog that costed the Hawks the Cavaliers series LAST YEAR on his own! If Shelvin Mack replaced him earlier, the Hawks would have been more competitive!
5. Al Horford does so many little things that no casual fan ever sees and if he is let go, everything that the Hawks do will all be lost.

Smells like a whole lot of BS with me, starting with Jeff Teague. Folks, Teague takes himself out of games regularly on his own. Good Teague is a sight to watch but there are too many times where he is lazy on defense and just jacks up threes off the dribble. Jeff Teague is not any better than a 3rd best player on a championship team, and if you truly believe he can be, you're dripping with delusion and dressed from head to toe in Jeff Teague fan gear.

[NBASupes]

Horford does a lot of things elite. Scoring and rebounding ain't one of them.

[macdaddy]

The rumor includes a wing coming in the trade in addition to Noel.  There are plenty of minutes for Sap, Horf, and Noel and we really do need him.   I like Humphries but it's 31 years old and hasn't been a major contributor to a team in 5 years.    He's also not really a center and we already have a short center.   Noel is young, cheap, improving.   Hell outside of the Horford he'll be the highest draft pick on the whole team.   Not that that means anything necessarily but it's not a negative.  

[Guest]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Horford does a lot of things elite. Scoring and rebounding ain't one of them.

So let's pay him $125 million for his assists and his smile.

[Lurker]

26 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

I don't want to lock us into 5 years of the same crap.

Some guys are desperate to do so on this forum.

[rd79]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

The rumor includes a wing coming in the trade in addition to Noel.  There are plenty of minutes for Sap, Horf, and Noel and we really do need him.   I like Humphries but it's 31 years old and hasn't been a major contributor to a team in 5 years.    He's also not really a center and we already have a short center.   Noel is young, cheap, improving.   Hell outside of the Horford he'll be the highest draft pick on the whole team.   Not that that means anything necessarily but it's not a negative.  

Noel would have been #1 pick if not injured. If I remember correctly, lots of people wondered how he could slip down to six...

[nathan2331]

Market always determine the price. This whole "But but this isn't an All star why is he getting the max" is outdated thinking. No offense to anyone but it is just not relevant in today's NBA. Average starters are now getting max or near max deals. That is the reality of the NBA.

They might be getting them, but there teams aren't winning anything. To me it's the same as when we gave Joe the max (even though that was a clear overpayment). At the end of the day, if you give that contract out, it's hard to make moves to add talent to the team. In two years I don't think that's a contract teams will want to touch. He'll have value but not a equivalent to that contract.

I say we build through the draft again. Rookies (assuming they're good) provide the best value in the league for at least 8 years. My bottom line is this: this team can't win a championship if we give Horford a max contract and I haven't seen anyone disprove that. So if you believe that, why do it?

[nathan2331]

Horford does a lot of things elite. Scoring and rebounding ain't one of them.

Yet those are things you need from your best big men. Especially on a team where we aren't getting volume scoring or rebounding from another position.

[Thomas]

3 minutes ago, rd79 said:

Noel would have been #1 pick if not injured. If I remember correctly, lots of people wondered how he could slip down to six...

Fear of the Greg Oden experiment rearing it's ugly head again I would think. Noel's rookie season was in physical rehab and watching his team from the bench. 

[Sothron]

17 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

They might be getting them, but there teams aren't winning anything. To me it's the same as when we gave Joe the max (even though that was a clear overpayment). At the end of the day, if you give that contract out, it's hard to make moves to add talent to the team. In two years I don't think that's a contract teams will want to touch. He'll have value but not a equivalent to that contract.

I say we build through the draft again. Rookies (assuming they're good) provide the best value in the league for at least 8 years. My bottom line is this: this team can't win a championship if we give Horford a max contract and I haven't seen anyone disprove that. So if you believe that, why do it?

Trust me, I am firmly in the belief you either have a championship contending team or you should be rebuilding to get one. Our team has been stuck for a decade or so it seems in the worst position possible: too good to tank for the lottery but not good enough to be serious contenders. You will never win a title in that position.

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Bankingitbig said:

I think some of those #'s are impacted by Noel having to play alongside Okafor. On top of that, Noel would usually defend the 4 spot, which could bring him farther away from the basket. Trying to see if I can find Noel's stats with and without Okafor on the floor.

That and the fact that he's young.  He's got plenty of time to grow.  I love his mobility, his length, and his energy.  I've not seen enough of his post game, most of what I see are lobs and offensive putbacks...but there are traces of a face up game in there and possibly a little sweeping hook.  More importantly, he's my kind of player.  I talk a lot about having a scoring threat, but my true appreciation is for shot blockers and guys who are active on the boards.

13 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Yet those are things you need from your best big men. Especially on a team where we aren't getting volume scoring or rebounding from another position.

^^Um...right!?!?! lol  +1 

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't disagree with your points.  And if we get Noel and Covengton for Teague, I'm not mad.  I'm mad if we then turn around and give Horf 120+ million for 5 more years of the same ol weakening shit that he's been giving us.  This is where I would like to see that move.  Use the money that we save on Horf to go after some game changers.  Keep those things that are good and get rid of those things that are weak.  Horf is weak.  He's getting weaker and he's not worth the max or anything close to that.  Let's look at closing the door on Horf, building around the young nucleus of Noel Sap, and Schröder and then bringing in other players that fit our program... I originally said Durant if we can get him.. or Baze/Barnes if we can't.

But just as you said... if we make this move and then handcuff ourselves back to Horf.. .we have not stepped forward at all, we've stepped back.

 

I'm not opposed to letting Horf go.  I actually brought up trading him a few years ago...much to the disapproval of the board.  I knew it would come to this.  I don't dislike Horf, but the only way I'd pay him that money is if we had the right team around him.  If you're Cleveland or Golden State, you pay him.  If we could secure the right compliment(s), we pay him.  I just see a max Horf signing as solidifying the status quo.

And let me leave it there before I start saying things that I'm going to have to eat later. :D

[JTB]

I can get behind this deal if it's Teague for Noel & Convington

Starters:

Pg- Dennis 

Sg- Bazemore 

Sf- Covington or Thabo

Pf- Sap

C- Horford

Bench

Pg- draft pick or free agent vet

Sg- Korver (sixth man) , Hardaway 

Sf- Convington/Thabo

Pf- Scott

C- Noel ...Edy will continue to be a project....Splitter if kept will get some minutes if healthy.

 

That gives us 4 young players to work on and mold to be solid starters for long time (Baze/Convington) and 2 can be future all stars (Dennis/Noel)....our future looks better with this trade. It's a very good mix of young talent and veterans. However the concern is scoring points with this unit! Defense and rebounding will be there.

Edited June 3, 2016 by JTB

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Wretch said:

That and the fact that he's young.  He's got plenty of time to grow.  I love his mobility, his length, and his energy.  I've not seen enough of his post game, most of what I see are lobs and offensive putbacks...but there are traces of a face up game in there and possibly a little sweeping hook.  More importantly, he's my kind of player.  I talk a lot about having a scoring threat, but my true appreciation is for shot blockers and guys who are active on the boards.

^^Um...right!?!?! lol  +1 

I'm not opposed to letting Horf go.  I actually brought up trading him a few years ago...much to the disapproval of the board.  I knew it would come to this.  I don't dislike Horf, but the only way I'd pay him that money is if we had the right team around him.  If you're Cleveland or Golden State, you pay him.  If we could secure the right compliment(s), we pay him.  I just see a max Horf signing as solidifying the status quo.

And let me leave it there before I start saying things that I'm going to have to eat later. :D

I'm gonna eat the shit outta some food today and it's all @lethalweapon3's fault lol

[LastDon]

Nik Staukas is dead weight and couldn't produce on a 10 win Sixer's team..Any inclusion of him would be a deal breaker..

[lethalweapon3]

5 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

I'm gonna eat the shit outta some food today and it's all @lethalweapon3's fault lol

In honor of @Diesel's favorite big man, I'm on the hunt for some sawft pretzels 'n mustard!

~lw3

[NBASupes]

47 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Yet those are things you need from your best big men. Especially on a team where we aren't getting volume scoring or rebounding from another position.

You guys will learn the hard way if you had your way.