The Outsiders Den

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I've alway been an impact guy and I've have always stated I loved the way San Antonio does it. Always. To me, talent isn't the 1st thing I look for from NBA players. It's their impact and their ability to fit a system. Regardless if it's the Larry Brown defensive scheme or the Coach Pop scheme of today of ball movement and off ball movement which is an advanced version of what you see in Europe.

Due to this, I have become enamored with players like Tim Duncan, Al Horford, Noah if he's healthy, Carroll, Korver, Manu, Klay,  Steph, Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Draymond Green,  Deng and others. I watch for the little things, screens, off ball movement, hustle plays, contesting shots, ability to run all types of plays with great efficiency, the ability to make others life much easier. 

Now the common NBA fan isn't really smart enough or have time to watch half as many games as I do. During a season, I average about 3 games a day and I watch the games most on my recorded app which I have from others in the community who are passionate about the game. With the exception of a team like the Nets, I watched every NBA team at least 10 times this year. Some obviously more than others. 

While doing that, I've collected a database of players across the NBA and I have been on record that this is the best the NBA has ever been in terms of sheer talent across the league.

Due to that, I have built an index on all NBA players. The one that stand out to this fanbase as well as others is Al Horford. I have been on record for saying I think Al is one of the best players in the NBA. An elite impact guy. So much so, I say things like he's better than Karl Malone and yes, I do believe it. 

It has gotten me in hot water with fanbases and no, I don't care. I value impact and the ability to make winning plays above all else and I stand by that for NBA players. Now for college prospects,  it is all about talent for me since it's hard to see the little things impact since it is just not the same game. 

Al Horford is exceptional. His elite skills are mid range shooting, movement, screens, PnR, PnP, cutting, overall BBIQ, defensive awareness, the ability to hedge, recovery time defensively, the ability to contest shots, the  ability to improvise without the ball. The ability to catch his teammates mistakes before the offensive recognizes it and of course the ability to communicate defensively. These are things I've seen both on film and in person. It's called constantly making the winning playoff if only have of this is done but Al does it all at an elite level. This is why I am extremely high on him and think he is one of the best players in the NBA period.

Now he has his flaws, his lack of wanting to bang for rebounds, his passive nature on offense and at times too unselfish. The fact that he is not a #1 option to a team that needs a #1 option. His talent is good but Aldridge is more talented. His athletic ability is very good overall but Smoove was clearly a better athlete when he was in his prime. To me, I look at the complete package. So I value Al, a lot more than you guys tend to. I value players like Nick Young, Dwight Howard at his present state, Josh Smith of now and then, Jamal Crawford in the wrong role, Nate Robinson, J.R. Smith,  Gerald Green and others a lot less than you guys tend to.

 

I will answer @TheNorthCydeRises post later. I am with the family right now.

Lol...of course not.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

This thread has too many long winded rants and not enough gifs. Where's @kg01 when you need him?

Why would you....ahhhh...F it! It's prolly bound to happen anyways...3...2.

[bird_dirt]

3 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Why would you....ahhhh...F it! It's prolly bound to happen anyways...3...2.

Hahahahaha! If I Knew how to do that shizz, right about here is where I would insert a "Release the Kraken" gif.

Edited July 4, 2016 by bird_dirt

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Lol...of course not.

There not anywhere near as smart as me on the game. I am not saying nothing special. I would admit I have several of friends who know Football and the NFL way better than me. WAY better. I asked them questions all of the time for the complex details like what do coaches look for. That's why I have some that say Matt Ryan is one of the better QB's in the game and I see him as an average NFL QB who is a game manager but it's clear his take is shared more than mines. I would take Kaepernick who couldn't buy a starting job which if Ryan was available today, he would be on 10 teams bucket list. Why? Because the advanced part of the game is what scouts and coaches care about from NFL QB's. Since I don't understand the game more than your average NFL fan and I am more of a wysiwyg fan, I tend to go for highlights and things like talent for that sport. I like size, measureables and things I can see. Not really caring about how hard you work in the film room, pre snap reads, post snap decisions, going through progressions, making the right decision, accuracy and things like that because I just don't have time to be passionate about the game like that. 

For me, I do have that passion with the NBA. That's why I talk with absolute confident when I talk  NBA Basketball.  Now for the NCAA's and college hoops, I haven't seriously watched it in years, I only watch for scouting NBA players. I played college ball for a year and a half. Didn't have the talent but I had court vision, heart, speed and passion for the game. Everyone saw that in me. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by NBASupes

[bird_dirt]

13 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Hahahahaha! If I Knew how to do that shizz, right about here is where I would insert a "Release the Kraken" gif.

Oh wait, here we go. It's is what I was thinking about:

 

[NBASupes]

39 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Would you care to explain what I'm wrong about? Thanks.

It seems like you're trying to put me in the pro Horford camp and that is nonsense.

Exactly, Hots is only pro NBA championship. If you aren't a NBA championship material, he doesn't think much of you outside of a role. I can respect him for his take even if I look at the even bigger picture. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There not anywhere near as smart as me on the game. I am not saying nothing special. I would admit I have several of friends who know Football and the NFL way better than me. WAY better. I asked them questions all of the time for the complex details like what do coaches look for. That's why I have some that say Matt Ryan is one of the better QB's in the game and I see him as an average NFL QB who is a game manager but it's clear his take and shared more than mines. I would take Kaepernick who couldn't buy a starting job which if Ryan was available today, he would be on 10 teams bucket list. Why? Because the advanced part of the game is what scouts and coaches care about from NFL QB's. Since I don't understand the game more than your average NFL fan and I am more of a wysiwyg fan, I tend to go for highlights and things like talent for that sport. I like size, measureables and things I can see. Not really caring about how hard you work in the film room, pre snap reads, post snap decisions, going through progressions, making the right decision, accuracy and things like that because I just don't have time to be passionate about the game like that. 

For me, I do have that passion with the NBA. That's why I talk with absolute confident when I talk  NBA Basketball.  Now for the NCAA's and college hoops, I haven't seriously watched it in years, I only watch for scouting NBA players. I played college ball for a year and a half. Didn't have the talent but I had court vision, heart, speed and passion for the game. Everyone saw that in me. 

Please, elaborate.

 

 

Also, I understand that you think very highly of your own opinion but honestly, it comes off kinda cocky and arrogant to me. I mean, ive been watching the game since you were in diapers, or not conceived but I still don't go around telling people my opinion is better than theirs. It's off putting and not very becoming is all.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I've alway been an impact guy and I've have always stated I loved the way San Antonio does it. Always. To me, talent isn't the 1st thing I look for from NBA players. It's their impact and their ability to fit a system. Regardless if it's the Larry Brown defensive scheme or the Coach Pop scheme of today of ball movement and off ball movement which is an advanced version of what you see in Europe.

Due to this, I have become enamored with players like Tim Duncan, Al Horford, Noah if he's healthy, Carroll, Korver, Manu, Klay,  Steph, Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Draymond Green,  Deng and others. I watch for the little things, screens, off ball movement, hustle plays, contesting shots, ability to run all types of plays with great efficiency, the ability to make others life much easier. 

Now the common NBA fan isn't really smart enough or have time to watch half as many games as I do. During a season, I average about 3 games a day and I watch the games most on my recorded app which I have from others in the community who are passionate about the game. With the exception of a team like the Nets, I watched every NBA team at least 10 times this year. Some obviously more than others. 

While doing that, I've collected a database of players across the NBA and I have been on record that this is the best the NBA has ever been in terms of sheer talent across the league.

Due to that, I have built an index on all NBA players. The one that stand out to this fanbase as well as others is Al Horford. I have been on record for saying I think Al is one of the best players in the NBA. An elite impact guy. So much so, I say things like he's better than Karl Malone and yes, I do believe it. 

It has gotten me in hot water with fanbases and no, I don't care. I value impact and the ability to make winning plays above all else and I stand by that for NBA players. Now for college prospects,  it is all about talent for me since it's hard to see the little things impact since it is just not the same game. 

Al Horford is exceptional. His elite skills are mid range shooting, movement, screens, PnR, PnP, cutting, overall BBIQ, defensive awareness, the ability to hedge, recovery time defensively, the ability to contest shots, the  ability to improvise without the ball. The ability to catch his teammates mistakes before the offensive recognizes it and of course the ability to communicate defensively. These are things I've seen both on film and in person. It's called constantly making the winning playoff if only have of this is done but Al does it all at an elite level. This is why I am extremely high on him and think he is one of the best players in the NBA period.

Now he has his flaws, his lack of wanting to bang for rebounds, his passive nature on offense and at times too unselfish. The fact that he is not a #1 option to a team that needs a #1 option. His talent is good but Aldridge is more talented. His athletic ability is very good overall but Smoove was clearly a better athlete when he was in his prime. To me, I look at the complete package. So I value Al, a lot more than you guys tend to. I value players like Nick Young, Dwight Howard at his present state, Josh Smith of now and then, Jamal Crawford in the wrong role, Nate Robinson, J.R. Smith,  Gerald Green and others a lot less than you guys tend to.

 

I will answer @TheNorthCydeRises post later. I am with the family right now.

Man, don't talk to me about San Antonio, I was rooting for them before it was popular, when they were considered boring. Tim Duncan is perched so high above Al that even with Al using the brightest spotlight in the universe he wouldn't be able to see Tim Duncan from his low level branch.

No one's denying that Al has a certain skillset that makes lives easier for other players and that's cool, but we needed MORE  from him when it mattered most and he fell short of it. If Al had Noah's passion and fire to go with his 'eliteness' most here won't complain.

You lost me with the other stuff lumping Dwight  Nick Young and Gerald Green - I don't know how to respond to that because I can't think of anyone who places any value on those 2.

 

[Buzzard]

I don't see you, NBASupes,  as a hater; I see you as a Horford fan. I would have liked to have kept him as well to see if he or SAP was the best pairing alongside Howard. But he is gone. Crying over spilled milk gets us nothing.

I think you are a proponent of tanking to begin with, if so, then according to what you think in this thread, maybe losing Horford will eventually be seen as one of your happiest days as a Hawks fan.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Buzzard

[Plainview1981]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Exactly, Hots is only pro NBA championship. If you aren't a NBA championship material, he doesn't think much of you outside of a role. I can respect him for his take even if I look at the even bigger picture. 

After thinking about it for acouple of days, I think it was just time to move on from Teague/Horford because they were going to be getting top dollars  (Horford this year and Teague next year) but it was very obvious that the Hawks had reached  ceiling  with these two guys. It was time for a change.

[rd79]

1 minute ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

After thinking about it for acouple of days, I think it was just time to move on from Teague/Horford because they were going to be getting top dollars  (Horford this year and Teague next year) but it was very obvious that the Hawks had reached  ceiling  with these two guys. It was time for a change.

And we don't know about the new team's ceiling yet. But after the change there is a chance to get better. The team also can get worse. We will see how the new and relegated parts fit together.

One fascinating part of team sports is, that the sum of players not necessarily equals the team.

And seeing D12 making free throws in the other thread makes me curious how he’ll work on his weaknesses and fits the team. I also want to see Bud adjust the game plan to his new players.

My biggest concern is how many games Dwight could miss due to injuries.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

This thread has too many long winded rants and not enough gifs. Where's @kg01 when you need him?

Man, I'm steering clear of this thread which i assume is Supers' personal post-Alicia whine-fest.  We all knew the news would hit him hard.  Seeing how Al basically took a runny, steamy dump on us had Supers really conflicted ...

He took some time off then came back with this 'den' nonsense which I assume was cathartic for him to sort through those feelings of disappointment after Al's fall from grace.  I think it's cute how he embedded it within a semi-feasible discussion of the team though.

 

[sturt]

Love the combination of intelligent discussion mixed with raw-even-to-the-point-of-repugnant candor and sharp witted humor on this board.

And that's even without AHF or the now dearly departed fanatic being regular contributors this holiday weekend.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

This thread has too many long winded rants and not enough gifs. Where's @kg01 when you need him?

LOL ... this is old school Hawksquawk ... when long winded rants were the norm around here.   Hawksquawk has literally improved my laptop and phone typing skills over the years.

But I will adjust.

Protect that paint Dwight.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Exactly, Hots is only pro NBA championship. If you aren't a NBA championship material, he doesn't think much of you outside of a role. I can respect him for his take even if I look at the even bigger picture. 

Were we a championship team last year? No. 

Should we have brought back the same team? No

Would we be better with Al added to this group? Most definitely yes

Does it suck that he picked The Green Goblin? Hell yes 

Did we do what Al wanted to upgrade the team so he could play more PF? Yes 

Was it enough? NO

The status quo was not enough.  Will this plan work? TBD.

This is what Koonin had to say before free agency:

Are we a good team? Yes

Are we a championship team? NO

Enough said.

What time is it? Time to let it go!!!

 

 

[pimp]

13 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

See, with Al , that play would have ended in a 3 pt play for the kid.
Ok, i'll see myself out now, as i clearly don't belong in the Den.  :)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Would you care to explain what I'm wrong about? Thanks.

It seems like you're trying to put me in the pro Horford camp and that is nonsense.

You're taking your usual contrarian view by saying that aquiring Howard won't matter in the end.  And you may be correct.  He may not be enough to get past a Cleveland.

Having said that, Dwight is the kind of big man this team has always needed.  A guy who is an active enough force around the rim on both ends of the floor who has to be game planned for.

His acquistion changes our potential destiny.  We now have the interior player to compliment BudBall's obsession with the 3 point shot.  When this team needs a basket outside of the system, we have the option to throw it inside and see if Dwight can score or get fouled, instead of giving us an empty possession.

You, more than anyone on Hawksquawk, has always talked about our smallish frontcourt and our inability to rebound.  

We've addressed that now.  Let's see if that takes us in a different path.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, pimp said:

See, with Al , that play would have ended in a 3 pt play for the kid.
Ok, i'll see myself out now, as i clearly don't belong in the Den.  :)

 "You can kiss my arse, pimp.  That kid's elbow clearly gently grazed my outer thigh.  I'm taking it up with the ref while he scores the bucket.  Daddy, did you see dat?"

Yeah, I don't belong in the din either I think.  Supes gon kick my arse.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

After thinking about it for acouple of days, I think it was just time to move on from Teague/Horford because they were going to be getting top dollars  (Horford this year and Teague next year) but it was very obvious that the Hawks had reached  ceiling  with these two guys. It was time for a change.

Agree 100%.  Like @JayBirdHawk, I wanted to see Horford with Dwight and Sap.  But if given the choice of Dwight or Horford, I now have to side with Dwight.  I definitely wasn't of that mindset before the playoffs.  But expecting Horford to be that alpha dog just wasn't realistic.

As for Teague and Dennis, the transition was obvious in the Cleveland series.  His willingness and ability to take over 2 of those games in the Cleveland series, showed the difference in heart and desire between the two.  Bud couldn't keep trying to coax Teague to be aggressive.  At the end of the day, either you have it or you don't.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

  But expecting Horford to be that alpha dog just wasn't realistic.

  Bud couldn't keep trying to coax Teague to be aggressive.

 At the end of the day, either you have it or you don't.