Remaking the 08-09 Magic.. In Atlanta.

[Diesel]

The 08-09 Magic... bolstered the following players:

Rashard Lewis, Turkoglu, Nelson, Alston, Lee, etc... all surrounding Dwight Howard.  

Their mission was outside in game.   

As a team, they hit 817 3pters and shot about 38% from behind the arc.

Dwight Howard on that team was a 20, 14 player...  and he only made 1.4 assist per game.   That means that they used his inside game as a decoy.  So it was an outside in game that SVG played. 

I believe that inside out play can work for us.   I can see us playing PNR basketball.  When we look at the comparisons, we're talking:

Dennis compared to Nelson?

That year Nelson averaged about 5.4 apg.     I think Dennis can do that in his sleep.  That means more PNRs for Dwight. 

Sap vs. Lewis?

Lewis was a force from behind the line.  He put up about 7 3 pters per game.  I don't expect Sap to put up those kind of numbers.   However, I think that Paul will match the scoring.. 17.7 ppg...

The real questions have to do with our scoring from the wings. 

 

[Lurker]

Here's the only way you really replicate the Dwight Howard Magic:

Schröder/Delaney/Korver/Scott/Howard

Defensive disaster, but there, here's your lineup with three shooters. I'm actually interested in seeing how this lineup looks against second units.

[IheartVolt]

Why do some on here always have to compare? Spurs East? The Magic?

Bud is not Pop and sure is not Stan Van Gundy. Sure Pop influences Bud but he is his own man and pretty sure  Bud will study what SVG did with D12 but this is the Hawks.

We are not the Spurs or Magic , deal with it

[Guest]

Let's not do that. This isn't 2008-09 Dwight. Just start there.

Bud will revamp the offense to take advantage of what Howard can excel at while still run his share the ball, pace and space, pass up good shots for great shots offense.

[IheartVolt]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Let's not do that. This isn't 2008-09 Dwight. Just start there.

Bud will revamp the offense to take advantage of what Howard can excel at while still run his share the ball, pace and space, pass up good shots for great shots offense.

That's what I am saying.. The ball moves so fluid in buds scheme there really is no need to try and recreate anything. Just use the talent you have to its full advantage. This is not Houston and The Beard's iso offense. D12 will get touches without forcing anything

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

The 08-09 Magic... bolstered the following players:

Rashard Lewis, Turkoglu, Nelson, Alston, Lee, etc... all surrounding Dwight Howard.  

Their mission was outside in game.   

As a team, they hit 817 3pters and shot about 38% from behind the arc.

Dwight Howard on that team was a 20, 14 player...  and he only made 1.4 assist per game.   That means that they used his inside game as a decoy.  So it was an outside in game that SVG played. 

I believe that inside out play can work for us.   I can see us playing PNR basketball.  When we look at the comparisons, we're talking:

Dennis compared to Nelson?

That year Nelson averaged about 5.4 apg.     I think Dennis can do that in his sleep.  That means more PNRs for Dwight. 

Sap vs. Lewis?

Lewis was a force from behind the line.  He put up about 7 3 pters per game.  I don't expect Sap to put up those kind of numbers.   However, I think that Paul will match the scoring.. 17.7 ppg...

The real questions have to do with our scoring from the wings. 

 

 

Lewis and Turk could shoot and put the ball on the floor. The Hawks aren't that good at either one.

Sap is a solid 3pt shooter for a stretch 4, but he isn't as good as Turk and Shard where when it comes to shooting from the outside. It's simply not the same.

[IheartVolt]

5 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

 

Lewis and Turk could shoot and put the ball on the floor. The Hawks aren't that good at either one.

Sap is a solid 3pt shooter for a stretch 4, but he isn't as good as Turk and Shard where when it comes to shooting from the outside. It's simply not the same.

People forget how good Turkeyglue was on those magic teams. He was basically a point forward who could shoot with the best. Had some crazy good years with Orlando

[High5]

We can't recreate Orlando, but we do need to see a big improvement in our 3pt shooting. Based on last season's numbers, Korver and Scott are the only good shooters on our roster with NBA experience (and Scott might not be here). Baze was slightly above average (.357 vs .354), but everyone else was below average or abysmal.

[Peoriabird]

Lay ups count too!

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

We can't recreate Orlando, but we do need to see a big improvement in our 3pt shooting. Based on last season's numbers, Korver and Scott are the only good shooters on our roster with NBA experience (and Scott might not be here). Baze was slightly above average (.357 vs .354), but everyone else was below average or abysmal.

It's how the Hawks are designed to shoot 3's, few on the team are actually good 3pt shooters.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Let's not do that. This isn't 2008-09 Dwight. Just start there.

Bud will revamp the offense to take advantage of what Howard can excel at while still run his share the ball, pace and space, pass up good shots for great shots offense.

its naive to think that getting a pnr player like D12 wont change our offense.

[High5]

2 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

It's how the Hawks are designed to shoot 3's, few on the team are actually good 3pt shooters.

Yeah, I don't think they shot a mediocre percentage by design. Everyone other than Scott has shot a better and at least slightly above average percentage at some point in their careers. (Korver, Baze, THJ, Thabo, Dennis, Millsap, Jack) They just need to get back to that this season. 

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

its naive to think that getting a pnr player like D12 wont change our offense.

Bud will adjust, he was lead assistant on the Tim Duncan Spurs for over a decade. He knows how to coach a tremendous big down low on the block. He also knows a great SF when he sees one (see Kawhi, look for Prince to top what DMC was). People bitch about Bud's stubbornness (me among them), but it's blatantly obvious he's adjusting. This isn't any other team, this is the 2016 Hawks!

Edited July 13, 2016 by hazer

[thecampster]

I think the 3 pt thing will change as well based on Dwight's presence. Because Horford was so soft in the middle, Splitter was out most of the year and Hump was only a late addition, teams abandoned playing post defense against the Hawks. We had a lot of contested 3 point attempts last year. Adding a true big in the middle, forces the opposing center to play honest and in some situations, forces an opposing wing to lag to offer help down low, creating space for a shooter.

This is one of the most misunderstood effects of Horford on the floor for us (and one I mentioned in a previous post). Horford does not require a double team in the post. Post play almost always requires a help defender and in some cases a pure double (depending on the center). But Horford almost never drew a double in the pure post. Teams were willing to lay off and take the their chances with Horford in the post. Horf got most of his points from short jumpers or movement plays, but not the post.

In Dwight, an early entry pass (see the video posted in the other thread about how to properly use Dwight), forces the other team to collapse in help. The creates space for the wings and begins the around the horn 3 point passing.  Horford does not give you this. This should create more open looks and an all around increase in 3 pt percentage for the team.

[hazer]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I think the 3 pt thing will change as well based on Dwight's presence. Because Horford was so soft in the middle, Splitter was out most of the year and Hump was only a late addition, teams abandoned playing post defense against the Hawks. We had a lot of contested 3 point attempts last year. Adding a true big in the middle, forces the opposing center to play honest and in some situations, forces an opposing wing to lag to offer help down low, creating space for a shooter.

This is one of the most misunderstood effects of Horford on the floor for us (and one I mentioned in a previous post). Horford does not require a double team in the post. Post play almost always requires a help defender and in some cases a pure double (depending on the center). But Horford almost never drew a double in the pure post. Teams were willing to lay off and take the their chances with Horford in the post. Horf got most of his points from short jumpers or movement plays, but not the post.

In Dwight, an early entry pass (see the video posted in the other thread about how to properly use Dwight), forces the other team to collapse in help. The creates space for the wings and begins the around the horn 3 point passing.  Horford does not give you this. This should create more open looks and an all around increase in 3 pt percentage for the team.

This, in combo with 3zus's healthy offseason, should see his return to 40% from deep. Even if only for 24 minutes a game, at a combo of SG/SF. Tremendous production and flexibility. Can you say 6thMOTY?

[thecampster]

Here you go....the Dwight effect.  Dwight played in 71 games last year....176 dunks.  All you need to see is the first dunk. He just steam rolls another player, unlike anything you ever saw from Horford.

 

 

[thecampster]

Comparing Howard and Horford yet again,

Shots by percentages last year

Shot type   Howard   Horford

Dunk -  14% - 4%

Close - 48% - 21%

Jumper - 27% - 67%

Other - 12% - 7%

 

Dunk or Close up, Howard shot 62% of his shots, Horford 25%. Or, per 82games.com, Howard 73% of his shots come inside, Horford, 33%....as a center, this is terrible for spacing. To put that into perspective, in 2014/15....Pero Antic was at 24% inside. Horford got so soft, he was almost Pero.

[hazer]

32 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Here you go....the Dwight effect.  Dwight played in 71 games last year....176 dunks.  All you need to see is the first dunk. He just steam rolls another player, unlike anything you ever saw from Horford.

 

 

Thing of beauty, at only 8 touches a game with the Rockets. Which will almost double with the Hawks PnR and LobNJam. Also why D8 is over 60% and Whorefart was only 51%. Triple the dunks, thems hard to block on early dump-ins

[hazer]

I don't think Whorefart has ever been that close to the rim that many times in his entire career.....

[thecampster]

19 minutes ago, hazer said:

I don't think Whorefart has ever been that close to the rim that many times in his entire career.....

Horford % of offense coming inside.

2014-15 - 33%

2013-2014 - 35%

2012-2013 - 37%

2011-2012 - 41%

2010-2011 - 33%

2009 -2010 - 49%

2008 - 2009 - 44%

 

Can't even blame it on the pectoral tears...the first wasn't until 2011/12.

 

In 2012/13 we ran Josh Smith out of town for shooting outside too much....he shot 44% of his shots inside that year.....Horford has shot less inside for 5 straight years.

 

Now as a comparison....since 2008, Howard's low % inside was 68%...his highs (2009-2010 Orlando) 87%, (2008/2009 Orlando) 83%.  This is what a true center does and is why his rebounding numbers are so high. Can't rebound consistently if you aren't near the basket.

Edited July 13, 2016 by thecampster