Remaking the 08-09 Magic.. In Atlanta.

[thecampster]

and you can't draw fouls either.

 

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

I think the 3 pt thing will change as well based on Dwight's presence. Because Horford was so soft in the middle, Splitter was out most of the year and Hump was only a late addition, teams abandoned playing post defense against the Hawks. We had a lot of contested 3 point attempts last year. Adding a true big in the middle, forces the opposing center to play honest and in some situations, forces an opposing wing to lag to offer help down low, creating space for a shooter.

This is one of the most misunderstood effects of Horford on the floor for us (and one I mentioned in a previous post). Horford does not require a double team in the post. Post play almost always requires a help defender and in some cases a pure double (depending on the center). But Horford almost never drew a double in the pure post. Teams were willing to lay off and take the their chances with Horford in the post. Horf got most of his points from short jumpers or movement plays, but not the post.

In Dwight, an early entry pass (see the video posted in the other thread about how to properly use Dwight), forces the other team to collapse in help. The creates space for the wings and begins the around the horn 3 point passing.  Horford does not give you this. This should create more open looks and an all around increase in 3 pt percentage for the team.

So much this ^^  People act like our offense is going to be so much different. It's really not. It's what Bud has wanted to do all along. As Koonin said in the interview the other day on the radio, Howard is going to create MORE space for shooters, not less.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, High5 said:

Yeah, I don't think they shot a mediocre percentage by design. Everyone other than Scott has shot a better and at least slightly above average percentage at some point in their careers. (Korver, Baze, THJ, Thabo, Dennis, Millsap, Jack) They just need to get back to that this season. 

I agree that we don't shoot threes like that Orlando team did.  However, somebody said it.. we got a different Dwight.   That's true.  Last season, Dwight had a career high in FG%!  62%.    Just to put it into perspective, Shaqfu's best FG% in his playing years was 61%.  

I'm excited thinking about how Bud will use him. 

 

[Sothron]

Diesel is 100% correct in how Bud is going to use Dwight. Big men in the low post create more space for shooters, not less. It has killed our offense frankly for years now because we had no one willing to go inside. Having Dwight in there means constant inside touches and the defense will have to pay attention to him. Bud isn't going to let some Harden esque hero ball nonsense stall the offense out like Houston does. The ball will continue to move and now we have an inside power to draw fouls and to get easy baskets.

This is the most excited I've been for a Hawks season since Horford's rookie season.

[Diesel]

48 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Big men in the low post create more space for shooters, not less. It has killed our offense frankly for years now because we had no one willing to go inside. Having Dwight in there means constant inside touches and the defense will have to pay attention to him. Bud isn't going to let some Harden esque hero ball nonsense stall the offense out like Houston does.

As I heard the Young Folks say:

 FACTS!!!

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

its naive to think that getting a pnr player like D12 wont change our offense.

What? I said Bud will revamp the offense...reading is fundamental

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What? I said Bud will revamp the offense...reading is fundamental

I think we both misunderstood.

I originally said, that we won't be just like Orlando, we would focus inside out instead of outside in.   So when you say "let's not do that but  n his share the ball, pace and space, pass up good shots for great shots offense"  I took that to mean that you were saying do the same thing we did before.

I think we both want to see the same thing.. a new wrinkle (in this case a whole Fold) added to what Bud practices.  I do think we will see more of PNR and PNP sets than we have seen in the past.   But yeah, once the ball is being rotated, we should pass up good shots for great ones... That goes without saying. 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think we both misunderstood.

I originally said, that we won't be just like Orlando, we would focus inside out instead of outside in.   So when you say "let's not do that but  n his share the ball, pace and space, pass up good shots for great shots offense"  I took that to mean that you were saying do the same thing we did before.

I think we both want to see the same thing.. a new wrinkle (in this case a whole Fold) added to what Bud practices.  I do think we will see more of PNR and PNP sets than we have seen in the past.   But yeah, once the ball is being rotated, we should pass up good shots for great ones... That goes without saying. 

 

Got it.  I was just saying lets not be Orlando because we aren't.  Our players have different skill sets and it's Bud's job to use them accordingly.

[bird_dirt]

ATL Hawks, aka Spagic East.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think we both misunderstood.

I originally said, that we won't be just like Orlando, we would focus inside out instead of outside in.   So when you say "let's not do that but  n his share the ball, pace and space, pass up good shots for great shots offense"  I took that to mean that you were saying do the same thing we did before.

I think we both want to see the same thing.. a new wrinkle (in this case a whole Fold) added to what Bud practices.  I do think we will see more of PNR and PNP sets than we have seen in the past.   But yeah, once the ball is being rotated, we should pass up good shots for great ones... That goes without saying. 

 

@Diesel   Quote from Bud...

 

[GrimeyKidd]

We should compare it to the twin towers spurs if we do. Bud said something along the lines that having dwight will help him go back to a scheme that he is more familiar with. 

[Diesel]

The interesting thing is that Analytics is made for teams that don't have superstars.  i.e. how do you best use non-star players... by the numbers.  Well, what do you do when you have those superstar players?  Maybe that's what Bud is talking about?

 

[AHF]

The only potential negative spacing impact from Dwight is on driving lanes into the paint.  He will definitely help free up our perimeter players for good jumpers.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

The only potential negative spacing impact from Dwight is on driving lanes into the paint.  He will definitely help free up our perimeter players for good jumpers.

I can't wait to see what Baze, Korver, and THJr can do with all the space that D12 creates...

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

The only potential negative spacing impact from Dwight is on driving lanes into the paint.  He will definitely help free up our perimeter players for good jumpers.

Actually, I disagree. With a big who doesn't go to the basket, the opposing center is free to cheat and help on penetration. Leaving Howard to stop Dennis' penetration = easy dunks for Howard. Howard = keeping the opposing center honest on D.

[Atlantaholic]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 7:45 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Let's not do that. This isn't 2008-09 Dwight. Just start there.

Bud will revamp the offense to take advantage of what Howard can excel at while still run his share the ball, pace and space, pass up good shots for great shots offense.

One thing that I fully expect is that this Hawks team will look A LOT different than it has in years past, both on offense and on defense. People were talking about Horford as if he was an especially good fit for Bud's system, but what  I think we will find out this year is that Bud's system was being tailored to Horford rather than vice-versa. In my opinion Bud's focus is, and has always been, on maximizing talent. I don't know if we are gonna win 60 games again this year (the east is, after all, MUCH improved from where it was two seasons ago.) however, I'm totally expecting that we will shock everyone and we will end up being a better team than last year. Obviously with GS trotting out an All-NBA lineup and Cleveland being the home of the, hands-down, second best player in NBA history, we won't be competing for a championship this season; Still, I'm very much looking forward to taking it to the other 93% of the NBA this upcoming season.

[AHF]

On 7/14/2016 at 9:20 PM, thecampster said:

Actually, I disagree. With a big who doesn't go to the basket, the opposing center is free to cheat and help on penetration. Leaving Howard to stop Dennis' penetration = easy dunks for Howard. Howard = keeping the opposing center honest on D.

I hope that is how it works out.  In practice, I'm not sure that Dwight has ever played with a PG who made his living penetrating into the paint.  He has normally been surrounded by guys with good jumpers and limited penetration (Jameer Nelson and Patrick Beverly being the biggest partners in Dwight's career).  In Houston, Patrick Beverly took roughly 60% of his FGA from 3pt range.  Nelson starting driving more but eventually evolved into a guy who primarily popped 3's.

He's never played with any PG who drives as much as Dennis.  (Just under 38% of his shots the last two season being at or near the rim).

On 7/14/2016 at 5:19 PM, Diesel said:

I can't wait to see what Baze, Korver, and THJr can do with all the space that D12 creates...

I've got no doubt all those guys will see a lot of open jumpers from defenses collapsing on Dwight.

[Admin]

I can picture Dennis using Dwight as a tree he dribbles by in the paint for an open layup as his man can't follow him closely enough. Parker made a living doing that.

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[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

I can picture Dennis using Dwight as a tree he dribbles by in the paint for an open layup as his man can't follow him closely enough. Parker made a living doing that.

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YESSSSSSS!!!!! Sorry got a tad too excited picturing that..