Hall of Famer... Dwight Howard.

[macdaddy]

Luckily the state finally has a Hawks license plate.  Got mine last week:

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Lol...not quite! Rodman was a 5 time NBA champion that included a back to back with the bad boys and 3 in a row with the Bulls. Howard has no rings..

 

yet

C'mon mang.  You supposed to end that post with a "MWAHAHAHHAHA" or something.  Geez, turnover on Spud2.

47 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Luckily the state finally has a Hawks license plate.  Got mine last week:

Kudos to you, macd.  Reppin' your Hawks and supporting @Dolfan23 and all the other license plate making inmates.  Macd, givin' bak to the community. 

[Guest]

Just now, kg01 said:

C'mon mang.  You supposed to end that post with a "MWAHAHAHHAHA" or something.  Geez, turnover on Spud2.

Kudos to you, macd.  Reppin' your Hawks and supporting @Dolfan23 and all the other license plate making inmates.  Macd, givin' bak to the community. 

Wtf...

[Plainview1981]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

If you got guys like Rodman in the hall of fame, then Howard has a place.  He was a MVP runner up and he has been on the all NBA team three times.. not to mention DPOY 3 times.  Those are hard to overshadow.  Moreover, the hall of fame is not about improving your game.   Melo is going to be a first ballot hall of famer and his game has never improved.   However, I would love to see Howard add leading a team to an NBA championship on that list. 

 

Well, I've never been overly high on Melo. He pretty much is a more talented Glenn Robinson.

Most of Dwight's accomplishments were early in his career. It's been increasingly diminishing returns since his Orlando days.

Like I said, Howard still has a chance to turn his reputation back around. But also falls in management to help build the right team around him. Honestly, the Hawks need more shooters.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Hotlanta1981

[macdaddy]

57 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Well, I've never been overly high on Melo. He pretty much is a more talented Glenn Robinson.

Most of Dwight's accomplishments were early in his career. It's been increasingly diminishing returns since his Orlando days.

Like I said, Howard still has a chance to turn his reputation back around. But also falls in management to help build the right team around him. Honestly, the Hawks need more shooters.

Just being optimistic but i'd say this:

- dwight's per36 numbers are still pretty close to what they were in orlando

- he's still averaging a double double

- he's spent four years playing with 'superstars' who were bent on trying to score 30 pts a game.   everyone's point totals will take a dip playing along side that. 

[Plainview1981]

43 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Just being optimistic but i'd say this:

- dwight's per36 numbers are still pretty close to what they were in orlando

- he's still averaging a double double

- he's spent four years playing with 'superstars' who were bent on trying to score 30 pts a game.   everyone's point totals will take a dip playing along side that. 

Shaq played with Kobe for many years and put up monster numbers. Pau Gasol also averaged 17 PPG a number of times during his career while playing with Kobe.

The problem is that Dwight is not overly skilled around the basket, he shoots poorly at the foul line, he doesn't pass out of double teams that well and he will turn the ball over.

Moreover, the stats seem to suggest that Dwight has lost a lot of impact on the defensive end over the years. He is not anywhere close to elite in that area anymore.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Well, I've never been overly high on Melo. He pretty much is a more talented Glenn Robinson.

Most of Dwight's accomplishments were early in his career. It's been increasingly diminishing returns since his Orlando days.

Like I said, Howard still has a chance to turn his reputation back around. But also falls in management to help build the right team around him. Honestly, the Hawks need more shooters.

Nothing about what you said is false...

1.  Melo is a more talented Glenn Robinson.

2.  Most of Dwight's accomplishments were early in his career. 

However, that being said, it doesn't change because over the years, his skills diminished.   He still accomplished enough to be a HOF.

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Shaq played with Kobe for many years and put up monster numbers. Pau Gasol also averaged 17 PPG a number of times during his career while playing with Kobe.

The problem is that Dwight is not overly skilled around the basket, he shoots poorly at the foul line, he doesn't pass out of double teams that well and he will turn the ball over.

Moreover, the stats seem to suggest that Dwight has lost a lot of impact on the defensive end over the years. He is not anywhere close to elite in that area anymore.

Dikembe Mutombo is a hall of famer.   

At least, Howard carried a team to the NBA championship.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Dikembe Mutombo is a hall of famer.   

At least, Howard carried a team to the NBA championship.

Dikembe does get the international boost but I think Howard would make it in there just coasting until retirement.  Obviously, doing something memorable in Atlanta will boost that candidacy.  

Anthony has a lesser case.  I think his championship at Syracuse helps him.

[Plainview1981]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Dikembe Mutombo is a hall of famer.   

At least, Howard carried a team to the NBA championship.

When did Howard carry a team to a tile?

Yeah, Orlando went to the finals, but I think it was comparable to the 76ers team that went to the finals in that Orlando had just the right cast around Howard. Howard hasn't done much leading since.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

When did Howard carry a team to a tile?

Yeah, Orlando went to the finals, but I think it was comparable to the 76ers team that went to the finals in that Orlando had just the right cast around Howard. Howard hasn't done much leading since.

Well, it was like that 76er team.   Iverson had the right cast around him.  And Iverson's talents certainly disappeared as he got older.   However, 

 

Iverson went into the Hall with Shaq!

 

[macdaddy]

17 hours ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Shaq played with Kobe for many years and put up monster numbers. Pau Gasol also averaged 17 PPG a number of times during his career while playing with Kobe.

The problem is that Dwight is not overly skilled around the basket, he shoots poorly at the foul line, he doesn't pass out of double teams that well and he will turn the ball over.

Moreover, the stats seem to suggest that Dwight has lost a lot of impact on the defensive end over the years. He is not anywhere close to elite in that area anymore.

Howard played with Kobe for one, injury plagued season in which he was shamed into playing when he should have sat.   I don't think his numbers in that season can be judged against Shaq and Pau as Lakers because Dwight's year with the Lakers was a friggin disfunctional mess from ownership on down.     So I think Kobe had a much different attitude about sharing the ball that season.

But even so, as you point out that Pau and Shaq were able to average 17 ppg playing with Kobe.   Well so was Dwight.   He averaged 17/12 that season despite all the crap going on.   

I agree with you about his skillset offensively.   I was never a fan of his but I think he is still what he once was.   He just has to be in the right situation.   Hopefuly this is it.  

[Plainview1981]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

Well, it was like that 76er team.   Iverson had the right cast around him.  And Iverson's talents certainly disappeared as he got older.   However, 

 

Iverson went into the Hall with Shaq!

 

Well, they were both better players and they played at a high level longer.

I just think that since Dwight is here some are wearing rose-colored glasses.

[Plainview1981]

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Howard played with Kobe for one, injury plagued season in which he was shamed into playing when he should have sat.   I don't think his numbers in that season can be judged against Shaq and Pau as Lakers because Dwight's year with the Lakers was a friggin disfunctional mess from ownership on down.     So I think Kobe had a much different attitude about sharing the ball that season.

But even so, as you point out that Pau and Shaq were able to average 17 ppg playing with Kobe.   Well so was Dwight.   He averaged 17/12 that season despite all the crap going on.   

I agree with you about his skillset offensively.   I was never a fan of his but I think he is still what he once was.   He just has to be in the right situation.   Hopefuly this is it.  

Dwight didn't make much of an impact with them though.

And it's only got worse since then. Every makes excuses for why Dwight failed in LA and Houston. He has left his last three teams on bad terms. Maybe it's not everyone else that is the problem. Dwight got by in large part because of his athleticism in his younger days. He has lost some of that, but he hasn't developed skills to help make up for it. So, you got a big man that is less athletic, and he wants to play inside, but he doesn't have the polished skills to do it.

I think we have to hope that Bud will find other ways of using him other than just trying to throw the ball down to him down there all the time. If he wants to be that kind of player he will have to make changes quick. If he hasn't done it in the last decade (while working with some of the games best big men ever) then I have a hard time believing that he will do it now.

It's up to him and Bud to figure it out. However, the skeptics have plenty of reasons to have doubts.

[Diesel]

27 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Well, they were both better players and they played at a high level longer.

I just think that since Dwight is here some are wearing rose-colored glasses.

Why shouldn't we??  Dwight.. even at this stage of his career, is the best defensive, rebounding C that we have had since Deke.   Moreover, he can play offensively too.  Moreover, he's not the only player we will have... we are returning a good squad who was very good defensively in their own right. 

 

[Plainview1981]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Why shouldn't we??  Dwight.. even at this stage of his career, is the best defensive, rebounding C that we have had since Deke.   Moreover, he can play offensively too.  Moreover, he's not the only player we will have... we are returning a good squad who was very good defensively in their own right. 

 

It just seems like some are expecting the 2009 Howard and I doubt very seriously that we will get that version.

I'm sure Bud will find ways to make good use of him. I just think that maybe it would be best to temper expectations. 

I don't think he is going to totally fail like Supes thinks, but I doubt he can lead us to the finals.

[macdaddy]

24 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

It just seems like some are expecting the 2009 Howard and I doubt very seriously that we will get that version.

I'm sure Bud will find ways to make good use of him. I just think that maybe it would be best to temper expectations. 

I don't think he is going to totally fail like Supes thinks, but I doubt he can lead us to the finals.

I understand what you're saying.   And I do have rose colored glasses but Dwight is one year removed from when the Rockets went to the WCF and he average 16/14/2 in that playoff run.  I mean that was 14 months ago.     So I don't see that he failed in Houston.  

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I understand what you're saying.   And I do have rose colored glasses but Dwight is one year removed from when the Rockets went to the WCF and he average 16/14/2 in that playoff run.  I mean that was 14 months ago.     So I don't see that he failed in Houston.  

One of my good friends from high school is a huge Rockets fan and when I was kind of down at first about the Dwight signing he was quick to point out that Dwight steps up in the playoffs when it counts, unlike Alicia.

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

One of my good friends from high school is a huge Rockets fan and when I was kind of down at first about the Dwight signing he was quick to point out that Dwight steps up in the playoffs when it counts, unlike Alicia.

Based on stats that's a true statement indeed!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

One of my good friends from high school is a huge Rockets fan and when I was kind of down at first about the Dwight signing he was quick to point out that Dwight steps up in the playoffs when it counts, unlike Alicia.

  "You guise just don't have the basketball IQ to fully appreciate my gaime.  See, if I give up offensive reboards my opponent gets tired.  Das dat jedi mine trick ya'll don't understand."