More Off-Season Rankings

[Guest]

By Sports Illustrated:

Atlanta Hawks

 

Best move: Giving Dennis Schröder the keys. For better or worse, the most important player on the Hawks’ roster is Dennis Schröder. Though he can be tough to rein in at times, the 22-year-old German guard has shown jaw-dropping flashes off Atlanta’s bench the last couple of years and has the type of athletic ability that suggests he’s capable of more. Frankly, the organization needs to see exactly what it has here.Dealing Jeff Teague to pave the way for Schröder came out of necessity as the Hawks chart their future. This will more than likely be a year of discovery, and that starts with figuring out exactly what Schröder looks like as the starter. It’ll be good theater. — Jeremy Woo

Worst move: Replacing Al Horford with one person. I don’t hate the Dwight Howard signing for Atlanta, but if Houston had offered Howard for Horford straight up last season, there's no way the Hawks would have said yes. If Howard commits to the pick-and-roll, Atlanta should not have a huge drop-off from last season. But counting on an older Howard to change his ways seems risky. The Hawks were likely better served trying to use the Horford cap space to sign role players who could fill in the team’s gaps. Conversely, Atlanta could have offered Horford a fifth year much earlier and possibly stopped him from ever leaving. — Rohan Nadkarni

The Skinny: Let’s be careful not to confuse activity with accomplishment when gauging Atlanta’s summer. There’s no doubt the Hawks were busy: they traded away an All-Star (Jeff Teague), lost an All-Star in free agency (Al Horford), and signed an All-Star in free agency (Dwight Howard), while also reportedly dangling another All-Star in trade rumors (Paul Millsap).

Did the sum total of those moves, and Atlanta’s secondary transactions, amount to much of anything? Probably not. The indirect Horford-for-Howard swap is a loss in terms of fit but a win in terms of money. While the Horford/Millsap pairing was a proven winner in coach Mike Budenholzer’s systems, committing maximum money to Horford for four or five years is slightly tougher than taking a three-year chance on Howard.

Nevertheless, it would be going too far to say that Howard represents a major upgrade, given Horford’s skill level, Howard’s injury history and the work that will need to be done to integrate Howard into an offense built around space and ball movement. When healthy, Howard remains a very good player whose numbers should benefit from a return to the Eastern Conference. The Hawks also deserve credit for avoiding an absolute disaster here: finding a way to make Howard work is a far better reality than being left high and dry by Horford’s departure.

Treading water, however creatively, doesn’t make for a winning summer. Atlanta’s other moves—paying up to re-sign two-way wing Kent Bazemore, shipping out Teague so that Dennis Schröder could step into the starting job, using two first-round picks to add wing depth, making a nice value signing with back-up guard Malcolm Delaney—look better in the long-term than the short-term. While there doesn’t appear to be an immediate difference-maker entering the fold, Atlanta has set itself up for significant flexibility next summer, when Millsap can opt out and numerous other veterans come off the books.

For now, though, one wonders whether Atlanta has enough. Even in the best-case scenario—Howard stays healthy and plays like an All-Star, Millsap keeps chugging along, Schröder steps seamlessly into the starting role, Kyle Korver enjoys a shooting renaissance—Atlanta probably didn’t do enough to hop out of the East’s thick middle.

It’s hard to blame the Hawks if they reached the conclusion that their current core, which took a step back last season, wasn’t worth the long-term mega dollars that Horford commanded this summer and that Millsap and Teague could soon command. But it’s also hard to truly celebrate an off-season that will likely produce some transition pains and that didn’t pull the Hawks meaningfully closer to the Cavaliers. — Ben Golliver

Grade: B–

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/08/23/nba-southeast-division-grades-hawks-hornets-heat-dwyane-wade-dwight-howard

 

[macdaddy]

I have some issues with that analysis.   

Quote

Even in the best-case scenario—Howard stays healthy and plays like an All-Star, Millsap keeps chugging along, Schröder steps seamlessly into the starting role, Kyle Korver enjoys a shooting renaissance—Atlanta probably didn’t do enough to hop out of the East’s thick middle.

Well just keeping Horford over Howard certainly wouldn't have been enough.     And keeping Horford and Baze would have been all we can do.    I'm comfortable rolling the dice on a guy who at least has the physical ability to dominate a game.   

Quote

The Hawks were likely better served trying to use the Horford cap space to sign role players who could fill in the team’s gaps. Conversely, Atlanta could have offered Horford a fifth year much earlier and possibly stopped him from ever leaving. — Rohan Nadkarni

This is pretty asinine.   To think that we'd improve by getting rid of Horford and collecting role players makes no sense.   And as i said above, bringing back the same team would not only be foolish but it would be pretty uninteresting to the fan base.     Having Sap, Horf, and Dwight would have been huge.   But i'm ready to see what Sap/Howard can do.    

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I have some issues with that analysis.   

Well just keeping Horford over Howard certainly wouldn't have been enough.     And keeping Horford and Baze would have been all we can do.    I'm comfortable rolling the dice on a guy who at least has the physical ability to dominate a game.   

This is pretty asinine.   To think that we'd improve by getting rid of Horford and collecting role players makes no sense.   And as i said above, bringing back the same team would not only be foolish but it would be pretty uninteresting to the fan base.     Having Sap, Horf, and Dwight would have been huge.   But i'm ready to see what Sap/Howard can do.    

 

 

I also think they fail to recognizethat role players were also getting paid BIG bucks.

[Gray Mule]

But, But, But!

Gee.  That writer acts like we didn't offer Horford enough $$$ and that is why he didn't sign and we will

be lost without him.  Doesn't he know, it has nothing to do with the $$$ and loyalty to Atlanta and has

everything to do with the great, superior fans in Boston?  Get with the program!

Everyone puts down Dwight Howard.  They ignore Jarrett Jack, fluff off our draft picks and ignore the fact

that the Hawks have two starters who should now be fully recovered from injuries they both played with

last season.

 

 

[bird_dirt]

Yeah, I don't think we'll see a big difference in record or challenger status next year as Dennis and D8 adapt, but we'll see a good return on this past off season in year 2 and 3 of D8's contract. 

We'll see a dip in backup pg play, but once Jack is healthy and Dennis matures, it's gonna be game on.

[thecampster]

6 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

But, But, But!

Gee.  That writer acts like we didn't offer Horford enough $$$ and that is why he didn't sign and we will

be lost without him.  Doesn't he know, it has nothing to do with the $$$ and loyalty to Atlanta and has

everything to do with the great, superior fans in Boston?  Get with the program!

Everyone puts down Dwight Howard.  They ignore Jarrett Jack, fluff off our draft picks and ignore the fact

that the Hawks have two starters who should now be fully recovered from injuries they both played with

last season.

 

 

You sir have a bad habit of saying everything I've been saying, but with fewer words and easier to understand......you're making me look bad here.

[thecampster]

Around game 40, the league experts are going to be saying, "how did we miss on Atlanta's stellar draft".  The trade wasn't Teague for Schröder.  The trade was

Teague 28 mpg/Schröder 20 mpg for Schröder 33 mpg/Delaney 15 mpg + Prince + 5 million in cap space which = Jack+Hump.  Writers are idiots.

And the decision wasn't Horford for Howard. The decision was Horford for Howard +$3million towards keeping Baze. These Hawks moves were incredibly savvy. They keep total salaries low so that next year we can afford to keep Sap, rearrange the log jam around the wing positions to let the rooks play and extend Schröder. Again...the writer is an idiot.

[BigDog90]

9 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

But, But, But!

Gee.  That writer acts like we didn't offer Horford enough $$$ and that is why he didn't sign and we will

be lost without him.  Doesn't he know, it has nothing to do with the $$$ and loyalty to Atlanta and has

everything to do with the great, superior fans in Boston?  Get with the program!

Everyone puts down Dwight Howard.  They ignore Jarrett Jack, fluff off our draft picks and ignore the fact

that the Hawks have two starters who should now be fully recovered from injuries they both played with

last season.

 

 

Dwight's health isn't bad. He only had one season where he didn't play atleast 70 games. These writers acting like ATL signed Noah.

These writers never seem to talk about how Al already had two major injuries that caused him to miss a lot of games.

[BigDog90]

7 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

Yeah, I don't think we'll see a big difference in record or challenger status next year as Dennis and D8 adapt, but we'll see a good return on this past off season in year 2 and 3 of D8's contract. 

We'll see a dip in backup pg play, but once Jack is healthy and Dennis matures, it's gonna be game on.

Yeah, I think getting Dwight was a lateral move which should mean 3rd to 6th seed like this past season but the Spurs' system is only as good as the PG.

Teague wasn't a bad player but he's more of a role player not the star PG like Parker in his prime which ATL needed him to be. Dennis got potential and will only get better.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, thecampster said:

Around game 40, the league experts are going to be saying, "how did we miss on Atlanta's stellar draft".  The trade wasn't Teague for Schröder.  The trade was

Teague 28 mpg/Schröder 20 mpg for Schröder 33 mpg/Delaney 15 mpg + Prince + 5 million in cap space which = Jack+Hump.  Writers are idiots.

And the decision wasn't Horford for Howard. The decision was Horford for Howard +$3million towards keeping Baze. These Hawks moves were incredibly savvy. They keep total salaries low so that next year we can afford to keep Sap, rearrange the log jam around the wing positions to let the rooks play and extend Schröder. Again...the writer is an idiot.

Well, to be fair, the writer may not be an idiot but he certainly didn't do his homework.  He basically wrote a "lowest common denominator" piece.  "Welp, they lost wHorford and gained Howard so I'll just compare the two.  What's that?  They lost Teague and inserted Dennis?  Guess I'll compare them two too."

Basically ripped all our moovs then gave us a B-?  That math don't add up.

[Dejay]

And let me guess. Boston gets an A++++++++ like Ralphie Parker in A Christmas Story for signing Horford who will give them 22/16/4 during the season, a 62-20 record, and lead them to the ECFs against Cleveland, right? Right???

A lot of this article just doesn't jive. If they had signed Horford to a max deal as this writer suggested, forget about Teague just being gone. Bazemore, Humphries, Jack, and Delaney more than likely wouldn't be here either and we'd be replacing them with sub D-league talent or asking Tracy McGrady how much does he has left in the tank. Giving Horford the max, losing Bazemore, expecting Prince or Bembre to be the second coming from the jump, AND hoping that the scrubs that the Hawks manage to sign to stay out of luxury tax trouble become something is just too much to expect from any team.

Sometimes, I cram to understand these 'experts'. Forget accounting, I should've majored in sports journalism...

Edited August 25, 2016 by Dejay

[hawkman]

6 hours ago, BigDog90 said:

Dwight's health isn't bad. He only had one season where he didn't play atleast 70 games. These writers acting like ATL signed Noah.

These writers never seem to talk about how Al already had two major injuries that caused him to miss a lot of games.

They also never talk about how soft Horford played the last 2 seasons. It's like the fans are the only people who know that Horf mailed it in.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, hawkman said:

They also never talk about how soft Horford played the last 2 seasons. It's like the fans are the only people who know that Horf mailed it in.

 "Ayo, I'm tired-a y'all saying I mailed it in.  I didn't mail in sh*t.  Don'tchu realize paper cuts is real, micky ficky?! ..... I emailt that sh*t in, bish ...  like a bawce."

[macdaddy]

9 hours ago, thecampster said:

Around game 40, the league experts are going to be saying, "how did we miss on Atlanta's stellar draft".  The trade wasn't Teague for Schröder.  The trade was

Teague 28 mpg/Schröder 20 mpg for Schröder 33 mpg/Delaney 15 mpg + Prince + 5 million in cap space which = Jack+Hump.  Writers are idiots.

And the decision wasn't Horford for Howard. The decision was Horford for Howard +$3million towards keeping Baze. These Hawks moves were incredibly savvy. They keep total salaries low so that next year we can afford to keep Sap, rearrange the log jam around the wing positions to let the rooks play and extend Schröder. Again...the writer is an idiot.

The experts will never say that.   They'll say "we knew Prince and Bembry were nba ready and just as we thought they are having an impact in Atlanta".

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

 "Ayo, I'm tired-a y'all saying I mailed it in.  I didn't mail in sh*t.  Don'tchu realize paper cuts is real, micky ficky?! ..... I emailt that sh*t in, bish ...  like a bawce."

Horf has really started talking crazy lately.  

[AHF]

9 hours ago, thecampster said:

Around game 40, the league experts are going to be saying, "how did we miss on Atlanta's stellar draft".  The trade wasn't Teague for Schröder.  The trade was

Teague 28 mpg/Schröder 20 mpg for Schröder 33 mpg/Delaney 15 mpg + Prince + 5 million in cap space which = Jack+Hump.  Writers are idiots.

And the decision wasn't Horford for Howard. The decision was Horford for Howard +$3million towards keeping Baze. These Hawks moves were incredibly savvy. They keep total salaries low so that next year we can afford to keep Sap, rearrange the log jam around the wing positions to let the rooks play and extend Schröder. Again...the writer is an idiot.

Nice post - the only item I'll note is that when we signed Howard we didn't intend to lose Horford at all.  Those moves were intended to be additive - not replacements.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Nice post - the only item I'll note is that when we signed Howard we didn't intend to lose Horford at all.  Those moves were intended to be additive - not replacements.

And that's my issue.   In terms of showing people you know what you we are doing the offseason was not a good one.   I think the end result is fine, but you don't want to appear to lose your top free agent because your initial offer was too low and you don't want to try to trade your best player to keep someone else only to fail at that.   Basically plan A was to have Sap, Horf, Dwight, plan B was Horf, Dwight, and now we are plan C.     I think most of us prefer C to B actually but it doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the front office.   

That said I think the team will quickly make this a forgotten issue somewhat in the way they did with the whole Ferry/Levensen debacle.   Not that the two are comparable but the team got on the court and played their asses off and the fans supported them.   I expect the same here because every guy on this roster is either a tried and true vet or has something to prove or both.  

[Buzzard]

I think these writers just like to rant about something and we are an easy target. We made a lot of moves this off season and also made a lot of headlines by doing so. This guy saying we did not do enough to catch Cleveland, talking about our draft picks,  and saying we did put ourselves in good shape next year was really enough to be a good article.

We were the 4th seed and came within two games of being the 3rd seed; I think we end up being the 2nd or 3rd. this season. The stuff on Schröder was pretty good. We do need to put him in play for a full season.

He lost me as they all do with the Dwight vs Horford drama. Bashing Dwight's age but not mentioning the fact Horford is only one year younger. Bashing Dwight's injury history but not mentioning how many games Al has missed with injury. Just a little more captain obvious research and this could have been a pretty decent article.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Buzzard

[macdaddy]

And who did do enough to catch Cleveland in the east.  No one.   The Celtics will disappoint and the raptors and detroit didn't do much.   Indy improved a lot IMO but nowhere near Cleveland.  

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

And who did do enough to catch Cleveland in the east.  No one.   The Celtics will disappoint and the raptors and detroit didn't do much.   Indy improved a lot IMO but nowhere near Cleveland.  

Exactly! There comes a time when results need to be the end game. This is it. The Raptors took two from Cleveland. We got swept; and that is no where near good enough.  The end game is we gave ourselves a better look for the future.  Cleveland ain't going to like playing us as much this season or in future seasons, I am positive about that.