Official Game Thread: Hawks at Pacers

[Sarcatic1]

16 minutes ago, hawkman said:

That last 'lob' was inexcusable. I see right now Bud is going to have to get him under control early.

He did that in another game and Bud took him out quickly and chewed him out. I forgot what game it was but the opposing team was making a comeback and Dennis for whatever reason tried to throw a lob that got broken up and the team went on to score. I want to say the Lakers game but I'm not sure. Anyone remember the game I'm talking about?

 

 

[capstone21]

28 minutes ago, Lurker said:

We can change who the PG is 100 times. They'd struggle too with Kyle Korver. That's been the story of the last season and 15 games, when Jeff played with Kyle last year he struggled a lot early and in the cases where Dennis played with him he struggled last year too.

it is not a point guard problem and never was, it is a Kyle Korver problem. Like it or not, the Kyle of 14/15 isn't here anymore and will not be returning. He's not drawing as much attention he did that year so the team isn't playing off his movements like Bud says they do.

14/15 is gone and not returning. Its time for Bud to adjust to it. Floor spacing is needed but sometimes, when you get down to it, you need more than one player that can put the ball down.

So his continual struggles are Korver's fault?  Really?  C'mon

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

So his continual struggles are Korver's fault?  Really?  C'mon

Your memory is very short. Teague struggled with Kyle Korver for a lot of last season. Its not the PGs, its Kyle. Was last year. Is this. Maybe you'll believe me if Delaney was put with Kyle. He'd struggle just like Dennis and Jeff did.

But you're one of the folks that still believes ole' Kyle is the cornerstone for the Hawks offense. Well he shouldn't be. Not anymore.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Lurker

[JonKoncak]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Your memory is very short. Teague struggled with Kyle Korver for a lot of last season. Its not the PGs, its Kyle. Was last year. Is this. Maybe you'll believe me if Delaney was put with Kyle. He'd struggle just like Dennis and Jeff did.

But you're one of the folks that still believes ole' Kyle is the cornerstone for the Hawks offense. Well he shouldn't be. Not anymore.

huh? Kyle has a .64 TS% .. 

[Lurker]

6 minutes ago, JonKoncack said:

huh? Kyle has a .64 TS% .. 

This is why analytics can't be the end all, be all. Kyle is still bringing great shooting, but all of the little things he provided before Dellavedova rolled his ankle are not there anymore and probably aren't coming back. It's tough for PGs to play with him because when they pass him the ball, unless there is no one near him he passes it right back and its after a lot of shotclock passed so its good luck to the PG. If Delaney played with Kyle, he'd struggle if the focus was on "let's get ole Kyle going".

[Lurker]

Put simply, if this team's success is reliant on Kyle returning to 14/15 form in his abilities with moving all over the floor, Bud needs to be checked to see if he's high!

[capstone21]

[Plainview1981]

13 minutes ago, Lurker said:

This is why analytics can't be the end all, be all. Kyle is still bringing great shooting, but all of the little things he provided before Dellavedova rolled his ankle are not there anymore and probably aren't coming back. It's tough for PGs to play with him because when they pass him the ball, unless there is no one near him he passes it right back and its after a lot of shotclock passed so its good luck to the PG. If Delaney played with Kyle, he'd struggle if the focus was on "let's get ole Kyle going".

You're correct.... Teams aren't scared shitless of Kyle's shooting like they were a few years ago. Moreover, what helped was that Carroll was shooting 40% of three's and he could put the ball on the floor enough to be a duel threat. He gave the Hawks something extra that they're no longer getting....Kyle and Baze are both stuck launching three's and other teams have adjusted to it.

[JonKoncak]

46 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

You're correct.... Teams aren't scared shitless of Kyle's shooting like they were a few years ago. Moreover, what helped was that Carroll was shooting 40% of three's and he could put the ball on the floor enough to be a duel threat. He gave the Hawks something extra that they're no longer getting....Kyle and Baze are both stuck launching three's and other teams have adjusted to it.

Kyle will always be a sharpshooter. The problem is Bazemore and Schröder imo. Korver is averaging less than 30 mpg this season, THJ is receiving plenty of minutes as have Thabo. Prince should start in place of Bazemore.  

[Plainview1981]

40 minutes ago, JonKoncack said:

Kyle will always be a sharpshooter. The problem is Bazemore and Schröder imo. Korver is averaging less than 30 mpg this season, THJ is receiving plenty of minutes as have Thabo. Prince should start in place of Bazemore.  

Kyle needs to be playing backup. He struggles to score 10 points on most nights. Just having good shooting percentages is not enough... He doesn't defend, he doesn't help on the boards, he is slow, he rarely gets open now and he can't create his own shot or handle the ball. He is just too limited to play quality minutes against other teams starters at this point.

[sturt]

Nice to see that Ressler came up with that ransom money, and we got our real starters back before tip-off tonight.

[BigDog90]

Good to hear this from an opposing team.

 George said. “If we eliminate those second chances, that percentage probably would have dropped a little more. We got to get a little tougher. These great offensive rebounders, there’s no quit. Dwight’s a rebounder. A box out is not going to stop him from rebounding. It comes down to a fight and we’ve got to win them.”

[Peoriabird]

This season might be one of Bud's poorest coaching efforts.  He can't seem to get the right combination out there enough to cut down on these turnovers.  The Hawks are a veteran team and should not lead the league in turnovers per game. Time a wasting and it is too apparent to everyone watching the Hawks that his starting line up isn't working.  This game was a great illustration of the fact.  Just making 1 personnel change this game made the starters more competitive.  But I don't think that he should stop there.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

This season might be one of Bud's poorest coaching efforts.  He can't seem to get the right combination out there enough to cut down on these turnovers.  The Hawks are a veteran team and should not lead the league in turnovers per game. Time a wasting and it is too apparent to everyone watching the Hawks that his starting line up isn't working.  This game was a great illustration of the fact.  Just making 1 personnel change this game made the starters more competitive.  But I don't think that he should stop there.

Uhm... It's early with a new team and a new PG.   Let's hold on til Feb before we start dissecting Bud. 

[RandomFan]

9 hours ago, Lurker said:

We can change who the PG is 100 times. They'd struggle too with Kyle Korver. That's been the story of the last season and 15 games, when Jeff played with Kyle last year he struggled a lot early and in the cases where Dennis played with him he struggled last year too.

 

Oh FFS! Do you even know any other songs?

 

By the way, how many minutes did Korver hurt Dennis vs the Pacers? Oh that's right, KORVER DIDN'T EVEN PLAY...

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400899666

K. Korver  SG

DNP-REST

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Uhm... It's early with a new team and a new PG.   Let's hold on til Feb before we start dissecting Bud. 

This isn't a new team.  The Hawks only have 1 new player on the team starting.  I am so tired of that excuse.  Some of the players on the Bench are new as well but you don't see them throwing the ball away like the starters. We are dead last in turnovers in the league primarily because our veteran starters can't take care of the ball.  there are plenty of teams that changed their stating line ups...Boston, Lakers, and Chicago come to mind and they are having 20+ turnover games on a nightly basis like the Hawks are lately.

[django2341]

vor 11 Stunden, hawkman sagte:

That last 'lob' was inexcusable. I see right now Bud is going to have to get him under control early.

Yes it was. You can´t throw that pass at that point of the game. BUT I looked at the possesion again and Howard was wide open and pointed to Dennis to throw the lob. The pass was on point but Howard didn´t react. But of course we all know Dennis should´nt made that pass. He will learn from it.

[Thomas]

5 hours ago, BigDog90 said:

Good to hear this from an opposing team.

 George said. “If we eliminate those second chances, that percentage probably would have dropped a little more. We got to get a little tougher. These great offensive rebounders, there’s no quit. Dwight’s a rebounder. A box out is not going to stop him from rebounding. It comes down to a fight and we’ve got to win them.”

Good to hear that from another team's voice. Imagine its been many a year since the last time anyone said that about our second chance points.

[Thomas]

9 hours ago, JonKoncack said:

Prince should start in place of Bazemore.  

Thinking there is going to be more and more pressure because of the good play by Prince to get him half those minutes at SF. We will always be dealing with the stigma of paying Baze what we are and not playing him big minutes whether he starts or not. Its really starting to look more and more obvious though what needs to happen. Prince is looking to be a wise draft pick for us.  

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

This isn't a new team.  The Hawks only have 1 new player on the team starting. 

As I sit here frying up the turkey...

Just mathematically, and thus objectively speaking.... the new player represents 20% of the players on the floor. And he replaces another who was arguably the best passer at his position in the league.

Demonstrates you can say how predictable the situation is going to be... in this case, how it's going to take the team some time before they find a rhythm, given the new guy's strengths and weaknesses in contrast to his predecessor... dozens of times before a season starts, but it's not going to keep people from sniping and bickering before November is done.

I'm concerned about some things, don't get me wrong. It's indisputable that this turnover thing is a thing. But we fixed it before when Dennis first came to the team as I recall, and I think there's reason for confidence that we'll fix it again.

Could this situation add fuel to the fire to get Jarret Jack into the mix after all... that's my question.