Ex Hawks - Losing contagious ?

[Gray Mule]

Atlanta Hawks are dropping like a stone.    It's got fans nervous, to say the least.

Has this rubbed off on some of our exes?  Are we contagious ?

On 12\14\2016, JT and his team lost to the Miami Heat.  Later in the night, Boston,

who has those fabulous fans, dropped their game to the Spurs.

Two games on national TV with each losing team having an ex Hawk all star playing

for them. 

What is Atlanta going to do?  This is not working, obviously.  If we had a GM, which we don't,

we might expect a trade or two in order to shake things up. 

Is it too soon to give up on the season?  If Bud gives up, will he consider playing our two

young draft picks?

Do the Hawks have too many aging stars and too many almost good wing players?

What has happened to our defense?  When one of the worst teams in the NBA shoots

almost 60% and buries us, we remember the Cavs hitting 11 threes in a row and setting

the record for threes in a four game sweep of Atlanta.  Same defense?  Scary thought,

isn't it. 

Too many questions without any answers.

 

[Thomas]

3 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Is it too soon to give up on the season?  If Bud gives up, will he consider playing our two

young draft picks?

Still don't see why Bud seems to think that is giving up. Their needing to play is two fold in that they will develop faster and they will already be a better option than Baze and Delaney as of right now as well.

[macdaddy]

Watched the end of the Celtics game last night.   Horford is a solid player, especially defensively.   They were without Thomas so maybe a little unfair but the Celtics seem about the same as they were last year.   They play as a team though.   They look like us the last two years.   They're jump shooters for the most part though.   Thomas really elevates them but that won't be enough.   

If we could get our crap together though then we can be better than most of the teams in the east below Cavs and Raps.   It's really about defense, cutting out the turnovers, and just respectable shooting.   These are all things we are capable of.

[Thomas]

Yeah, we have several of the same players not playing with much intensity on defense whereas that was not a consistent problem before this year. The Baze thing is becoming a unique cancerous situation now so just can't explain all of that but Lurker posted a great sample of blown defensive plays by several guys in detail and its almost like we have a rookie coach now. Straighten it out Bud. Guess that Atkinson loss is bigger than I ever imagined it would be. As said by many, being the coaching farm team for the NBA is a big hindrance to us this year more than ever.

[Gray Mule]

Having a lazy center isn't helping.  In a recent game, it apparently

took too much effort to step out of bounds to throw an entry pass.

In the last game, his lazy inbounds pass was intercepted and thrown

down for two.

Our "Jolly Green Giant" center is supposed to be a mature, experienced

NBA player, not a green rookie.

 

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Having a lazy center isn't helping.  In a recent game, it apparently

took too much effort to step out of bounds to throw an entry pass.

In the last game, his lazy inbounds pass was intercepted and thrown

down for two.

Our "Jolly Green Giant" center is supposed to be a mature, experienced

NBA player, not a green rookie.

 

He is not lazy. He made a dumb play but that's not due to work ethic.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Having a lazy center isn't helping.  In a recent game, it apparently

took too much effort to step out of bounds to throw an entry pass.

In the last game, his lazy inbounds pass was intercepted and thrown

down for two.

Our "Jolly Green Giant" center is supposed to be a mature, experienced

NBA player, not a green rookie.

 

I'm not saying that Dwight is an all around jinx but he just might be. It's like everywhere he goes and everything he touches turns to $hit. He goes to the Lakers and really screws them up (which by the way was fun to watch), he ran D'Antoni out of town in LA and now he is thriving as the Rockets coach and a talented Rockets group that is missing a key player from last year..DWIGHT! 

 

I simply cant give up on Howard because we invested in him. That being said, we could be in a whole heap of mess for the foreseeable future unless Howard changes his DNA, which last I checked is impossible unless ur incredibly wealthy lmao

[Gray Mule]

Southron:  He's either lazy or dumb.  Whichever it was, it's not good.

[Sothron]

5 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Southron:  He's either lazy or dumb.  Whichever it was, it's not good.

It was dumb. Mentally lazy if you will. He's only had a few plays that were just bad mistakes. And to be fair other players make plenty of mental mistakes and I don't see them getting called out for it. Why the focus on Dwight?

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

I'm not saying that Dwight is an all around jinx but he just might be. It's like everywhere he goes and everything he touches turns to $hit. He goes to the Lakers and really screws them up (which by the way was fun to watch), he ran D'Antoni out of town in LA and now he is thriving as the Rockets coach and a talented Rockets group that is missing a key player from last year..DWIGHT! 

 

I simply cant give up on Howard because we invested in him. That being said, we could be in a whole heap of mess for the foreseeable future unless Howard changes his DNA, which last I checked is impossible unless ur incredibly wealthy lmao

Sorry.. but I don't see Howard as the problem here.   I think Howard is part of the solution.  Our problem starts and ends in one place... PG.  Nobody cares to admit it but our PG play has changed our offense.  We used to have ball movement and passing up the good shot for a better shot.  With Dennis running the team, we go to Iso play and that doesn't win.   Secondly, we don't have good play off the bench either.   I would rather have a messy Shelvin Mack than Delaney.  This is similar to when we changed over to Jason Terry.  There was nothing really wrong with Terry but we brought him in with No vets in the Backcourt.  He became lost and we lost.   We got Dennis on the floor with nobody there to tell him that he has to run the offense.   He reverts back to what he does so well.  Drive.   So our offense is drive and kick. drive and score.  While it looks good against some teams that hasn't scouted Dennis, eventually teams will scout him and his drives will be cut off and those kicks won't matter. 

Overall, we have less passing in the offense and most of that is the tempo that the PG creates.  So now when guys get the ball, they feel that either they most create or they must score because they won't get another chance. 

 

[macdaddy]

8 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

I'm not saying that Dwight is an all around jinx but he just might be. It's like everywhere he goes and everything he touches turns to $hit. He goes to the Lakers and really screws them up (which by the way was fun to watch), he ran D'Antoni out of town in LA and now he is thriving as the Rockets coach and a talented Rockets group that is missing a key player from last year..DWIGHT! 

 

I simply cant give up on Howard because we invested in him. That being said, we could be in a whole heap of mess for the foreseeable future unless Howard changes his DNA, which last I checked is impossible unless ur incredibly wealthy lmao

i think that's a false narrative.   I mean the Lakers were decent with him and got way, way worse without him.   I think D'antoni was there a year after Dwight left right?

Houston won 54, 56 games his first 2 years and went to the WCF.   Then they handed the reigns to JB Bickerstaff and had a crappy year.  

[Thomas]

18 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

It's like everywhere he goes and everything he touches turns to $hit.

Remembering when Stan the Fat Man had Howard and his other band of misfits in the finals. Only remember Dwight losing one particular game at the line. Courtney Lee blew a fast break layup for a win and Jameer Nelson almost ran the clock out when they desperately needed a score which apparently was ok'ed by Stan. We haven't tasted the finals here so I'm going with it is doable but a ten man rotation and a wide awake Bud would surely help. 

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Sorry.. but I don't see Howard as the problem here.   I think Howard is part of the solution.  Our problem starts and ends in one place... PG.  Nobody cares to admit it but our PG play has changed our offense.  We used to have ball movement and passing up the good shot for a better shot.  With Dennis running the team, we go to Iso play and that doesn't win.   Secondly, we don't have good play off the bench either.   I would rather have a messy Shelvin Mack than Delaney.  This is similar to when we changed over to Jason Terry.  There was nothing really wrong with Terry but we brought him in with No vets in the Backcourt.  He became lost and we lost.   We got Dennis on the floor with nobody there to tell him that he has to run the offense.   He reverts back to what he does so well.  Drive.   So our offense is drive and kick. drive and score.  While it looks good against some teams that hasn't scouted Dennis, eventually teams will scout him and his drives will be cut off and those kicks won't matter. 

Overall, we have less passing in the offense and most of that is the tempo that the PG creates.  So now when guys get the ball, they feel that either they most create or they must score because they won't get another chance. 

 

I don't think Dennis is running things any differently than Teague did.  We just have other guys on the team refusing to run the offense.   And it's everyone.   The ball will stick with Thabo, Baze, Tim.    Dennis is playing at a high level.   There are times he dribbles too much but that was Teague too.  

As someone else said Dennis and Dwight are doing  most of what we expected and wanted them to do.   Almost all the other key guys aren't except for maybe Thabo.   

[Sothron]

24 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

I'm not saying that Dwight is an all around jinx but he just might be. It's like everywhere he goes and everything he touches turns to $hit. He goes to the Lakers and really screws them up (which by the way was fun to watch), he ran D'Antoni out of town in LA and now he is thriving as the Rockets coach and a talented Rockets group that is missing a key player from last year..DWIGHT! 

 

I simply cant give up on Howard because we invested in him. That being said, we could be in a whole heap of mess for the foreseeable future unless Howard changes his DNA, which last I checked is impossible unless ur incredibly wealthy lmao

You do know the Magic with Dwight as their superstar went to the Finals and were serious Finals contenders most years he was there, right? And that in Houston they won over 50 plus games and went to a conference finals? The only bad spot he's ever had was that time in LA and he was playing with a torn labrum in his shoulder plus Steve Nash didn't play and the Lakers had a slew of injuries. None of that was Dwight's responsibility.

[Thomas]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

As someone else said Dennis and Dwight are doing  most of what we expected and wanted them to do.   Almost all the other key guys aren't except for maybe Thabo.   

At least for the moment we have our best options in the starting lineup now whether its enough or not. I'll give Thabo his due and he starts over Prince but both should get plenty of minutes. Now for Bud, staff and players to straighten these atrocious kinks out. Very painful stuff. 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

You do know the Magic with Dwight as their superstar went to the Finals and were serious Finals contenders most years he was there, right? And that in Houston they won over 50 plus games and went to a conference finals? The only bad spot he's ever had was that time in LA and he was playing with a torn labrum in his shoulder plus Steve Nash didn't play and the Lakers had a slew of injuries. None of that was Dwight's responsibility.

Oh please don't leave out the ever so inefficient and aged team killing Black Mamba. Mamba out was well before Mamba left.

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't think Dennis is running things any differently than Teague did.  We just have other guys on the team refusing to run the offense.   And it's everyone.   The ball will stick with Thabo, Baze, Tim.    Dennis is playing at a high level.   There are times he dribbles too much but that was Teague too.  

As someone else said Dennis and Dwight are doing  most of what we expected and wanted them to do.   Almost all the other key guys aren't except for maybe Thabo.   

Open your eyes.   Teague had his share of dribble drives.  However, the ball moved a lot more with Teague/Horford.  Yes, we do miss some passing from the 5 spot too.   However,  you do know that Teague learned to run the offense and not just dribble drive when he felt like it.   That's what we don't have with Dennis.. and even though Statwise Dennis is successful, it wrecks the offense.  Guys don't know when to expect the ball so when they do get the ball it sticks.  A guy like Baze starts to think... "man, I got to do what Teague would do last year "and he's in the lane trying to pass out....   that's not his game.  He's a set shot or slasher but not a creator.  

So.. how this offense is run effects all the positions. 

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

Oh please don't leave out the ever so inefficient and aged team killing Black Mamba. Mamba out was well before Mamba left.

trust me I hate Kobe. Most overrated player I've seen since Allen Iverson.

[macdaddy]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Open your eyes.   Teague had his share of dribble drives.  However, the ball moved a lot more with Teague/Horford.  Yes, we do miss some passing from the 5 spot too.   However,  you do know that Teague learned to run the offense and not just dribble drive when he felt like it.   That's what we don't have with Dennis.. and even though Statwise Dennis is successful, it wrecks the offense.  Guys don't know when to expect the ball so when they do get the ball it sticks.  A guy like Baze starts to think... "man, I got to do what Teague would do last year "and he's in the lane trying to pass out....   that's not his game.  He's a set shot or slasher but not a creator.  

So.. how this offense is run effects all the positions. 

So we're blaming Dennis for Baze sucking now?    Sure the offense ran much differently with Teague AND Horford.   They are running a totally different set with Dwight down low.   But just because Dennis drives, pretty successfully, at times doesn't mean he's doing it every time.   Far from it.   Saying that Dennis doesn't run the offense and wrecks the offense is wild hyperbole.   "Guys don't know when to expect the ball"?    Nah.  Guys don't know what to do with the ball.   

 

[Sothron]

We've got two guys with axes to grind: Supes with Horford so he must hate Howard and Diesel with Teague so he must hate Dennis.

Meanwhile, Korver, Bazemore and Millsap quietly chuckle as they read this board and thank God no one is calling their sorry asses out.