Eastern Conference Allstar PGs.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

But to be a little more fair, these are the players who have shot 45% FG - 38% 3FG ... averaged at least 21 ppg and 5 asst in a season

- Curry ( 5 times )

- Bird ( 4 )

- Irving ( 3 )

- Durant ( 2 )

- Kobe, T-Mac, Magic, Chris Webber, Michael Finley, Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway ( Sr. ), and Lebron James ( 1 )

 

Also on the ( 1 ) list, are 3 current PGs in the East:   Lowry, Walker, and Thomas

 

So in essence, some of you are dissing a guy who is playing at a Hall of Fame level at the PG position.

 

[AHF]

57 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't know that anyone said Irving was at Lebron's level.   But he's certainly an amazing offensive talent.   Wouldn't you say he's certainly at Melo's level?

I would say there are a small handful of superstars in the league.  They are the guys who can win you a championship as your #1 if  you've got a solid to good cast around them.  Kyrie is not at that level.  There is a reason he has never been in the MVP discussion.

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But to be a little more fair, these are the players who have shot 45% FG - 38% 3FG ... averaged at least 21 ppg and 5 asst in a season

- Curry ( 5 times )

- Bird ( 4 )

- Irving ( 3 )

- Durant ( 2 )

- Kobe, T-Mac, Magic, Chris Webber, Michael Finley, Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway ( Sr. ), and Lebron James ( 1 )

 

Also on the ( 1 ) list, are 3 current PGs in the East:   Lowry, Walker, and Thomas

 

So in essence, some of you are dissing a guy who is playing at a Hall of Fame level at the PG position.

 

Not in HOF class, IMO.  If you run that same type of arbitrary number filter you can associate Josh Smith with a bunch of no brainer HOFers too.

The guy is a point guard who doesn't average 6 assists per game for his career.  His A/TO ratio is less than 2.  Holy crap.  That means he is not running your offense.  It means he is a short scoring guard and not what we think of as a PG at all.

That doesn't make him a bad player but suggesting he is a better PG than Magic Johnson because he hits some arbitrary metrics while Magic doesn't is crazy.  Nash was a much better shooter and distributor but didn't score as much so because Nash isn't on the list that is supposed to mean something as far as comparing them.  Kidd destroys him on D and running an offense but doesn't score as much or shoot as well.  Who is more valuable as a PG?  I see your list with HOF talents like IT And Walker and suggest there are more meaningful stats for evaluating PGs.  (You may not be suggesting he is better than those players but what else is that combination supposed to mean?)

Start messing with the numbers and you'll find him with a lot more people -- focus on passing and ball handling and you'll not find him on the list at all.

[AHF]

Here you go.  Players who have averaged a minimum of 14 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 1.1 steals and 7. 0 rebounds for their career:

David Robinson

Hakeem Olajuwon

Josh Smith

Anthony Davis

 

HOF level play!

http://bkref.com/tiny/cokEF

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Here you go.  Players who have averaged a minimum of 14 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 1.1 steals and 7. 0 rebounds for their career:

David Robinson

Hakeem Olajuwon

Josh Smith

Anthony Davis

 

HOF level play!

http://bkref.com/tiny/cokEF

But points are normally the name of the game, when you talk about Hall of Fame play.

Kyrie has the point production and the proven shot making ability in clutch situations in the playoffs, to be on the fast track to the Hall of Fame.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not in HOF class, IMO.  If you run that same type of arbitrary number filter you can associate Josh Smith with a bunch of no brainer HOFers too.

The guy is a point guard who doesn't average 6 assists per game for his career.  His A/TO ratio is less than 2.  Holy crap.  That means he is not running your offense.  It means he is a short scoring guard and not what we think of as a PG at all.

That doesn't make him a bad player but suggesting he is a better PG than Magic Johnson because he hits some arbitrary metrics while Magic doesn't is crazy.  Nash was a much better shooter and distributor but didn't score as much so because Nash isn't on the list that is supposed to mean something as far as comparing them.  Kidd destroys him on D and running an offense but doesn't score as much or shoot as well.  Who is more valuable as a PG?  I see your list with HOF talents like IT And Walker and suggest there are more meaningful stats for evaluating PGs.  (You may not be suggesting he is better than those players but what else is that combination supposed to mean?)

Start messing with the numbers and you'll find him with a lot more people -- focus on passing and ball handling and you'll not find him on the list at all.

He's a point guard that is currently creating about 35 ppg, when you factor in the assist.  That's very hard to do, no matter who you are.  Plus when you factor in the clutch shot making ability of the kid, his talent and value is undeniable.  It's Hall of Fame level talent that you're seeing out of him.

[AHF]

I'll agree to disagree.  

1 - He is not a a point guard.  He is not a notable ballhander or a good passer.  Of the 32 players averaging 5 assists per game this season, he ranks 25th in A/TO ratio and 28th in assist%.  HOF PG?  Really?

2 - He is not a good defender.  Opposing point guard put up a 20 PER against him.  That means he makes the average opposing point look like...well, him on offense since he averaged a 19.9 PER last season and has a 20.9 PER this season.

3 - FWIW since "clutch" play was brought up, he shoots .385% FG% in clutch situations this year according to 82games, a little better than Iman Shumpert.  That could be worse but ins't anything to write home about.  It looks especially bad compared to his teammates JR Smith and Lebron who are killing it in the same situations this season.

4 - Since we are talking scoring now, if he isn't one of the top passers among this group and doesn't have the responsibility of running the show for Cleveland he surely has to be the most efficient scorer or close to right?  Nope.  He isn't in the top 10 in TS% and isn't among the top 5 in PPG among players averaging 5 assists per game this season.

5 - He is not at a HOF level, IMO, but I won't rule out him continuing to improve and getting there.