Howard > Hoeford and Schröder > Teague, so what's missing?

[GameTime]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

This is not what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at is that most of the wings on this team fed off of playing off of Horford's passing and were hidden by his defense.

What's easier?

1. Trying to acquire two elite players at the wing with talent and skills.

2. Having a center that has high IQ, is very mobile, and is a good shooter.

Both seem pretty hard to acquire at this point in the game.

Hardaway (30%) and Baze (27%) are the worse 3pt shooting wings in the NBA and our backup PG, Delaney (18%) is the worse shooting backup guard in the NBA. Hard to be a contender when you have these issues.

[Lurker]

I think people would get it if the entire team was swapped out outside of Howard (and it does not necessarily mean not having good players) and the team was still shaky.

Seriously though, major changes were going to have to be made for the team to be able to compete even with Horford and there's a point in which is it even worth it for you to stay in the middle without taking risks? I honestly do not think so.

More risks needed to be taken other than just Howard. I think the Delaney move was fine but it turns out that his game isn't translating to the NBA.

We're at the point in which I'd be fine with taking a bit of a step back to let the rookies learn...and maybe even get in the playoffs anyway with them learning. Trade the K&K music factory and do it. You're not shooting well with them so it doesn't matter if they're not here.

[Sothron]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We got average NBA wings. We need studs. That's why what Lurker is saying is right. We need Leonard and George. But let's see how easily we can get Paul George or Khawi Leonard. Which is why I constantly go at Dwight. He's not a good fit for most NBA teams in today's NBA. I personally think Bud signed him to save face when he knew Al was leaving Atlanta. 

Whose average? Korver? Bazemore? Those guys are dogs. Even THJ can't hit threes worth a lick and he's the best of a sorry bunch.

If we didn't have Dwight we'd be dead last in the NBA right now.

 

[Marvin24Williams]

As much as I hate to admit it, we really miss Horf's PnR defense. With that being said, the two biggest things imo are our HORRIFIC wing play and huge drop off of backup PG play compared to last year. We don't have the luxury of having two starting caliber PG's anymore.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Marvin24Williams

[benhillboy]

Talent and a GM.  

Our best defenders don't get up into guys anymore either.  The residual effect of Junkyard being gone I guess.  They allow so much space and get eaten by screens. On the flip side our offensive spacing is nothing to write home about.  Sap is our best player and seemingly going through the motions a lot of the time.  We just f@&ked up right now until Splitter comes back and we run off 10 straight lol.

[Watchman]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

OST

OSR

[Guest]

The stats may say one thing but it's the ancillary pieces around them are really struggling, actually they have been downright brutal. 

1. The wings/backup Bigs - shooting and defense is deplorable.

2. Turnovers - just too damn many, because of a lack of capable players to handle the ball effectively

3. PG - we don't have a back-up, when the best option to run point when Dennis sits is Baze or THJr - that's a problem

4. Millsap - he's dragging this season overall.  The really good games he's had are the ones without Dwight when he can display his full offensive repertoire. 

5. Bud - play the rooks

Teams have figured out how to defend the traditional 1-5 PnR with Dwight rolling to the rim. Unless Dwight is close to the rim it's ineffective otherwise, his offensive skillset is very limited and he is a bad passer if the dunk or easy layup isn't there.  The 1-4 PnR with Sap and Dennis has been more effective because with Millsap there are varied options to score and he's a good passer (but he either has missed the shot or the player he passes to shoots a brick).  The team still can't figure out how to make a decent and TIMELY pass when Dwight has established early deep position.  Passes are too late more often than not and it leads to a turnover.

When Dwight is in the game our perimeter defense suffers because that's not his strength, just doesn't have the foot speed and agility to trap and recover. His strength and comfort zone is paint and rim protection.  I also think the effort on the perimeter is lacking at times because they know they have Dwight as the last line of defense. Lots of time you don't see active hands and feet, fighting through screens etc.

 

[Thomas]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 I also think the effort on the perimeter is lacking at times because they know they have Dwight as the last line of defense. Lots of time you don't see active hands and feet, fighting through screens etc.

The more I pay attention to this the worse it looks. Defensive intensity is hard work and we seem apathetic or in Sap and Kyle's case old.

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

The more I pay attention to this the worse it looks. Defensive intensity is hard work and we seem apathetic or in Sap and Kyle's case old.

I thought Delaney was a find, turns out he doesn't immediately translate and may never. Need to trade some folks for a very good 3-and-D wing starter. Suggestions? And get Jack healthy and back in here. Oh, and play the rooks.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We got average NBA wings. We need studs. That's why what Lurker is saying is right. We need Leonard and George. But let's see how easily we can get Paul George or Khawi Leonard. Which is why I constantly go at Dwight. He's not a good fit for most NBA teams in today's NBA. I personally think Bud signed him to save face when he knew Al was leaving Atlanta. 

 

[Thomas]

7 hours ago, benhillboy said:

 Sap is our best player

Been hanging out with Chris Webber this season guy? Dennis and Dwight are well ahead of Sap. Dennis may very well end up our MVP for years to come. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Been hanging out with Chris Webber this season guy? Dennis and Dwight are well ahead of Sap. Dennis may very well end up our MVP for years to come. 

Sap is our most skilled player.  He shld be our best but he's just not playing like it.

[AUhawksfan]

We are beating this Horford/Howard thing to death.  We were probably a more fluid team with Alice but games by him like last night remind me why we weren't winning it all with him and I was fine taking a risk on Dwight.

I was tired of getting our @$$ kicked down low by guys like Tristan and Whiteside.  Those teams with Al proved that there is still a place for rebounding and a post presence in this league and we lacked it.

We got that piece but now we lost what Al brought - that's why I wanted both but I'm not mad that I can't have my cake and eat it too.  Al chose to be the next Hawks team, which is where I see the Celtics (ECF at best).

I just wish I knew our direction now because I feel like meddling as a .500 team isn't the best place to be and we should start taking risks and making changes <cough>Bud<cough>.  If it doesn't work we can head towards the lottery, if it does we might just find ourselves a working lineup that has some success and at the very least some of our young guys get some burn.

[Thomas]

14 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Sap is our most skilled player.

Agree with that if talking about track record but right now with play on the court its Dennis. Don't think that is going to change much. Not saying Sap won't play better just believe things are moving forward with Dennis making more of a positive impact for us and certainly he refuses to hesitate with the game on the line. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I was tired of getting our @$$ kicked down low by guys like Tristan and Whiteside.

Now we are getting our @$$ kicked by the bottom feeders.

This is probably for another topic but it's not that we are losing - it's about the teams we are losing to, losing at home and HOW we are losing. That is troublesome.

[macdaddy]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Now we are getting our @$$ kicked by the bottom feeders.

This is probably for another topic but it's not that we are losing - it's about the teams we are losing to, losing at home and HOW we are losing. That is troublesome.

Frankly for me there is a glimmer of hope in that inconsistency.   The old team was pretty consistent.   Beat who we were supposed to beat and fold embarrasingly in big games.   We've seen this team be competitive and even beat elite teams.   If we can tweak it maybe we can take the next step.    I mean we're .500 with pretty horrible turnovers and shooting.   These are things that can be improved even with this roster.   

[StephenHawking]

vor 10 Stunden, Sothron sagte:

Whose average? Korver? Bazemore? Those guys are dogs. Even THJ can't hit threes worth a lick and he's the best of a sorry bunch.

If we didn't have Dwight we'd be dead last in the NBA right now.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but we didn't lose more or won less with D8 off the court. Dennis is our key player atm. Without him we'd be worse. Still I think D8 has impact if used right.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Frankly for me there is a glimmer of hope in that inconsistency.   The old team was pretty consistent.   Beat who we were supposed to beat and fold embarrasingly in big games.   We've seen this team be competitive and even beat elite teams.   If we can tweak it maybe we can take the next step.    I mean we're .500 with pretty horrible turnovers and shooting.   These are things that can be improved even with this roster.   

 

I understand that sentiment but everytime I think we are rounding a corner - we fall headlong into an abiss.

the 'glimmer' keeps getting snuffed out.

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

I understand that sentiment but everytime I think we are rounding a corner - we fall headlong into an abiss.

the 'glimmer' keeps getting snuffed out.

I think the elephant in the room here is that there isn't buy in from the players.   They won't admit it but i don't think some of these guys like playing with each other or believe in the system.   So it could go either way.   I've seen some improvement on the chemistry between Sap and Dwight so that's hopeful.   I don't think anyone respects Delaney's ability to run the team so that's a huge problem.  I definitely think we're on the edge.   This ain't the get together and play Uno Hawks anymore, but that could be good if we can turn it into competitive fire instead of thin-skinned finger pointing.   

 

 

[Diesel]

I don't think it is a buy in from the players.   I think it's a successful transition of a gameplan from the coach.   We are not who we were last year.  We are not a finesse team. Therefore, we have to change our style and not be so dependent on the things we depended on last year.   Last year, we used our 3 pt shooting to make the defense defend us.  This year, we're still trying to do the same.  I say we have to learn how to feed the post. .. Yeah, we need better three point shooters because 29 out of 30 is ungodly awful, however, we have to change the gameplan a bit and that comes down to Bud. Moreover, Bud's defenses are a lot worse than they ever been... that comes from losing a defensive minded assistant coach.  I say we have to go out and find that next young Thibbs.