Kyle Korver appreciation thread

[BigDog90]

13 hours ago, GameTime said:

So let me get this right....

 

We are dealing to get pieces for a potential Jimmy Butler trade?

Lol yeah if Dennis was traded for one of these high lottery picks.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

I disagree with this. If the Hawks know several AS players might be traded around the deadline...why wait until then to only get scraps? Best to strike first and get the best assets out there that teams are willing to trade.

So you believe that the number of All-Star players will exceed the number of teams that will be interested in them or you believe that teams are willing to give more now in early January than they are willing to give when they actually believe themselves to be competitors 6 weeks from now and are looking at their last opportunity to turbo charge their team?  Striking first only makes sense if you get a premium.  I've no problem at all if we get one but I strongly believe we will be in a better position to get a premium if people don't have other options.  If you've ever negotiated you know it is better to set your asking price when someone is over a barrel and has no other comparable options than it is when they have a fall back comparable option if they reject you.

[macdaddy]

sucks.   I wasn't happy with Al leaving but it was his choice and he had been noticeably dogging it for a season.    Kyle may have lost a step but the effort was always there.  Always.   The dude probably maxed out his ability more than anyone on the team.   

I hope he can return to this organization and to Atlanta soon.

[BigDog90]

He was an underappreciated player. He was more than a 3 pt shooter. He was a playmaker, shot blocker and good help defender. Unfortunately Bud didn't put him in the best position to succeed after the ECF year. 

[BigDog90]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Portland? They need defense real bad. Or we cud send him.to Biston to help Al rebound, lol.

Man if Bud send Dwight and Millsap out West, the West playoff race is really going to be intense.

[Sothron]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

So you believe that the number of All-Star players will exceed the number of teams that will be interested in them or you believe that teams are willing to give more now in early January than they are willing to give when they actually believe themselves to be competitors 6 weeks from now and are looking at their last opportunity to turbo charge their team?  Striking first only makes sense if you get a premium.  I've no problem at all if we get one but I strongly believe we will be in a better position to get a premium if people don't have other options.  If you've ever negotiated you know it is better to set your asking price when someone is over a barrel and has no other comparable options than it is when they have a fall back comparable option if they reject you.

I understand your analogy of trying to stretch someone over a barrel but I don't think that applies in this situation. How many teams are going to give up a first round pick for a 37 year old defensive liability on an expiring contract? Korver is truly just a one trick pony at this stage in his career. Not many teams can use a player like him in today's game.

Trading him now means we got a first rounder from what I have to believe was the only team willing to give one up BEFORE Cleveland moved on and found another shooter for that future first rounder. Cleveland needed a JR Smith replacement and wasn't going to wait for the trade deadline to get a deal done.

[AHF]

25 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I understand your analogy of trying to stretch someone over a barrel but I don't think that applies in this situation. How many teams are going to give up a first round pick for a 37 year old defensive liability on an expiring contract? Korver is truly just a one trick pony at this stage in his career. Not many teams can use a player like him in today's game.

Trading him now means we got a first rounder from what I have to believe was the only team willing to give one up BEFORE Cleveland moved on and found another shooter for that future first rounder. Cleveland needed a JR Smith replacement and wasn't going to wait for the trade deadline to get a deal done.

I thought we were talking about trading ASs (i.e, Millsap)?  Does AS not stand for All-Star?  

On Korver, two points:

(1)  No team will give up a first rounder for him right now unless they have a screaming need for a 3pt shooter.  At the deadline, teams that are not certain contenders but hope to compete will give more than they will today.  A team like Milwaukee might be out of contender status by then or might be well over .500 and looking for perimeter fire power.  There will always be a market for elite 3pt shooters so I don't have a big worry about not being able to return protected late first round 2019 value for him and do get a sick taste from giving Cleveland another asset.

(2)  The best reason to deal him now is not about maximizing trade value (except with Cleveland where now is the right time), it is about getting him off the roster to open minutes for your rookies.

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I thought we were talking about trading ASs (i.e, Millsap)?  Does AS not stand for All-Star?  

On Korver, two points:

(1)  No team will give up a first rounder for him right now unless they have a screaming need for a 3pt shooter.  At the deadline, teams that are not certain contenders but hope to compete will give more than they will today.  A team like Milwaukee might be out of contender status by then or might be well over .500 and looking for perimeter fire power.  There will always be a market for elite 3pt shooters so I don't have a big worry about not being able to return protected late first round 2019 value for him and do get a sick taste from giving Cleveland another asset.

(2)  The best reason to deal him now is not about maximizing trade value (except with Cleveland where now is the right time), it is about getting him off the roster to open minutes for your rookies.

I thought you were referring specifically to the Korver trade but my previous point stands: I don't believe in the "wait till the trade deadline" thinking any longer. The NBA simply has too many smarter GMs than in past years where waiting longer would get some moron like Billy King to give you his baby for a third string point guard.

Teams already by this point in the season know who they are willing to move and who they view as future building blocks that they won't move. Trading Millsap now means we simply get the first pick of every team's available trade goods. Waiting until other teams make a frenzy of trades and only having the scraps left at the trade table would be a disaster.

I would much rather the team be proactive than reactive. Losing Horford for nothing was a killer to our franchise last offseason and we couldn't do it again with Millsap.

And yes, one of the perks of trading Korver now is to give more playing time immediately to younger players. We already are a better team with Korver not on the court so that should continue to trend.

[lethalweapon3]

Just look at all the appreciation in this here thread! 

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

They got Landscape in Switzerland, or nah?

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

~lw3

[AHF]

54 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I thought you were referring specifically to the Korver trade but my previous point stands: I don't believe in the "wait till the trade deadline" thinking any longer. The NBA simply has too many smarter GMs than in past years where waiting longer would get some moron like Billy King to give you his baby for a third string point guard.

Teams already by this point in the season know who they are willing to move and who they view as future building blocks that they won't move. Trading Millsap now means we simply get the first pick of every team's available trade goods. Waiting until other teams make a frenzy of trades and only having the scraps left at the trade table would be a disaster.

I would much rather the team be proactive than reactive. Losing Horford for nothing was a killer to our franchise last offseason and we couldn't do it again with Millsap.

And yes, one of the perks of trading Korver now is to give more playing time immediately to younger players. We already are a better team with Korver not on the court so that should continue to trend.

That is where we disagree.  This is not a draft where having "first pick" gets you the best available choices.  Trade assets that are available are a function of team need, team goals, and available alternatives.  In the Korver trade, Cleveland already has championship or bust goals, has a big need for perimeter shooting, and has alternatives but none that shoot like Korver so that dynamic works for us as long as we are willing to forego what we might get from other teams.  For most teams, goals have not been cemented, needs are not yet cemented (injuries tend to be a great value driver), and they have a nice range of potential alternatives (Boogie, Butler, etc.) who may or not may not end up actually being available and they have a bucket of time to develop those alternatives.  

This isn't about intelligent GMs.  Intelligent GMs will give up more when they have a clear goal to accomplish and very limited options that would allow them to accomplish it.  You do more to make a deal happen when you have to make a deal than when you are window shopping hoping to see a bargain.

[BrazilianHawk]

Thank you KK for all the effort and all the threes. I wish you could win a ring with the Hawks, but it just wasn't meant to be.

 

OTOH... A ring is a ring, right?

[High5]

Korver was responsible for so much of my happiness as a Hawks fan. Nothing brought the house down like those 3's. It was awesome to see how much he truly cared about this team and city, too. 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

That is where we disagree.  This is not a draft where having "first pick" gets you the best available choices.  Trade assets that are available are a function of team need, team goals, and available alternatives.  In the Korver trade, Cleveland already has championship or bust goals, has a big need for perimeter shooting, and has alternatives but none that shoot like Korver so that dynamic works for us as long as we are willing to forego what we might get from other teams.  For most teams, goals have not been cemented, needs are not yet cemented (injuries tend to be a great value driver), and they have a nice range of potential alternatives (Boogie, Butler, etc.) who may or not may not end up actually being available and they have a bucket of time to develop those alternatives.  

This isn't about intelligent GMs.  Intelligent GMs will give up more when they have a clear goal to accomplish and very limited options that would allow them to accomplish it.  You do more to make a deal happen when you have to make a deal than when you are window shopping hoping to see a bargain.

I don't think there's any real difference between now and the deadline to affect any possible trade targets and choices. We will have to agree to disagree. I think flipping Millsap now, if that's what we do, lets BudCox get the best deals now as opposed to waiting when half the teams in the league might be ready to flip players. Some teams are going to get left with pennies on the dollar. BudCox, if they flip Millsap, will be ahead of the curve and get the best possible trade bait before the market is run dry by other teams.

[LamarHampton]

The Great White Hype! The Honkey Hope! 

You will be missed, good sir.

As a white guy who can't dribble, you inspired me and countless others to pick up a basketball and practice my threes more than I otherwise would have.

Hearing about your summer training regimen also inspired me to work harder as a mid-30-something guy.

Thank you for The Streak. Thanks for the clutch threes. Thanks for sparking our offense. Thanks for your very underrated defense. Thank you for your great movement without the ball. Thank you for your BBIQ. Thanks for the time you spent helping our other Hawks getting better at their shooting, whether it was Anthony Morrow or Dennis or THJ. Thank you for all of your love for the city of Atlanta and your time spent on volunteer and charity work here and around the country. A real standup guy if there ever was one.

Easily one of my Favorite Hawks of the last decade, if not longer.

Hopefully you will make it back to Atlanta as a player and/or a coach in the near future.

Best of luck (except against the Hawks) in the rest of your career and life.

The city of Atlanta really lost a great guy in this trade. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, LamarHampton said:

The Great White Hype! The Honkey Hope! 

You will be missed, good sir.

As a white guy who can't dribble, you inspired me and countless others to pick up a basketball and practice my threes more than I otherwise would have.

Hearing about your summer training regimen also inspired me to work harder as a mid-30-something guy.

Thank you for The Streak. Thanks for the clutch threes. Thanks for sparking our offense. Thanks for your very underrated defense. Thank you for your great movement without the ball. Thank you for your BBIQ. Thanks for the time you spent helping our other Hawks getting better at their shooting, whether it was Anthony Morrow or Dennis or THJ. Thank you for all of your love for the city of Atlanta and your time spent on volunteer and charity work here and around the country. A real standup guy if there ever was one.

Easily one of my Favorite Hawks of the last decade, if not longer.

Hopefully you will make it back to Atlanta as a player and/or a coach in the near future.

Best of luck (except against the Hawks) in the rest of your career and life.

The city of Atlanta really lost a great guy in this trade. 

Thanks Lamar...more salty discharge lol

 

 

[LamarHampton]

6 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Thanks Lamar...more salty discharge lol

 

 

Salty discharge?!?! Bruh... You are on a roll lately with your cray cray posts...

good job. Keep up the good work.

[Guest]

Just now, LamarHampton said:

Salty discharge?!?! Bruh... You are on a roll lately with your cray cray posts...

good job. Keep up the good work.

Thanks...I've been emotional for about 19.5 hours now...lol