Official Game Thread: Hawks at Mavericks

[Thomas]

8 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

But then again i have to admit that im with DS17FB on being worried about Dwights willingness to stay with the role he had so far this season. 

Dwight has stated over and over this season he wants to win. The starting line up is working and beating teams in the top four of the league so why bitch when this three year stretch may be his last shot. Money at this point is not the number one priority with him or he would be earning more this very second. Some are still expecting a meltdown?  

[Sothron]

27 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

dont you realize that you arent better in any way? 

I mean maybe they are a bit harsh with Dwight but on the other hand you praise him as if he wouldnt have any flaws.

e.g.: outstanding post ability. I already once gave yall dh8 fanboys his post stats. Hes a bad post player actually. He has no moves, bad accuracy on hook shots (overall with his back to the basket) and turns it over fast when pounding the ball. 

But before you call out any agenda... Dwight is great at what he does atm. Putbacks, easy dunks, rebounding, rim protection and he actually shows more effort on perimeter d in the last couple of games.

But then again i have to admit that im with DS17FB on being worried about Dwights willingness to stay with the role he had so far this season. 

 

I don't unfairly criticize players like the #AgendaHawksFans have been doing, yourself included, with these unfair and frankly laughable "criticisms" of Dwight and Dennis. I call it like it actually is not like I want it to be or how I want my perception of reality to come true.

Dwight's post up numbers come in such a tiny sample size that it is hard to judge them by raw data. The eye test tells you that he consistently achieves great post position where you don't have to be a great post player to either score or get fouled. Dwight doesn't even turn the ball over hardly and yet you have people like yourself blathering about how he turns the ball over. Or sets poor screens, which hasn't been true in almost two months now. Hell the guy is even hitting free throws better than at any point in his career for the last month plus and not a peep from #AgendaHawksFans like yourself.

[Thomas]

Yeah, the eye test theme only works if someone actually watches the game as it happens when it happens. Maybe not fair for those who can't do that consistently but the physical presence we have now is so absurdly different from last year moving towards the playoffs. Just ask the Cavs about that fight in the paint stuff. We're here now so lets take the shot.   

[Guest]

Just now, Thomas said:

Yeah, the eye test theme only works if someone actually watches the game as it happens when it happens. Maybe not fair for those who can't do that consistently but the physical presence we have now is so absurdly different from last year moving towards the playoffs. Just ask the Cavs about that game in the paint stuff. We're here now so lets take the shot.   

And we beat them in their house already! Not saying we could take them in s 7 game series but we are much better equipped this year than last imo.

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Spud2Nique said:

And we beat them in their house already! Not saying we could take them in s 7 game series but we are much better equipped this year than last imo.

Truly don't bet because it doesn't fit the sixty year old cat narrative but that is one bet I'll take right the frack now! Windows in the NBA are short and unfortunately mysterious so when will the next best shot arise? Don't have a clue so lets take a shot now.  

[Lurker]

Any time they TRY to go to Dwight in the post if he doesn't get fouled he looks terrible. I mean not even close at times when he's close in.

[Kimsey]

Dennis rubs people the wrong way. It's okay vs. the opps but cut that stuff out with teammates. Dwight has been everything I'd hope for thus far. Sure there are things that irk me but he's doing what he was brought in to do. 

 

Dwight has been killing it at the line the past month or so. That aspect of his game makes up for his lack of post scoring in the offense. That's if he can keep it going.  

[Plainview1981]

4 hours ago, DS17Fanboy said:

Periobird and especially Sothron. I dont have an "agenda". Stop laying words in peoples mouth and then parade when Dwight plays great. Stop being silly. I root for Dwight each game as well.

Im not on the defensive. You should be. Its evident to anyone who knows a bit of basketball that Dwight is not taking part much in plays and that is not a critique. It is to do with his lack of creative qualities, which is why Millsap matters so much. Millsap is not only a good passer like someone else noted, but he posts up far away from the basket multiple times a game, more often than not after creating mismatches. Stuff like that does not only create points by Millsap, but also causes scrambling defenses and lots of fouls.

Millsap is involved in allot more offensive plays because he can play away from the basket and can play of the dribble. Which gets him in allot of way more difficult scoring positions compared to 60+ FG% Dwight. Simple as that.

Im feeling like Im saying "the pope is catholic" but whatever...and IMO they fit great together. Dwight is used like he should be used. The question just is, how he takes it. But just look at their combined stats. Look at how many TO's we made when trying to create for Dwight.

 

Yep. Dwight should look to be more like Deke. Rebounding and defense.

There are some nights where he will have a big offensive night, but most nights it will be 10-15 points because he never developed his offensive skills or passing skills.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Any time they TRY to go to Dwight in the post if he doesn't get fouled he looks terrible. I mean not even close at times when he's close in.

This is simply not true. At all. Dwight does not even hardly get a chance to DO a post up move before he's fouled or he's rushing the move because he only got the ball with under 4 seconds in the shot clock.

You can really tell who watches the actual games and who does not.

[Lurker]

I've watched plenty of games and the times that they go to Howard in the post, if he's not fouled he looks awful. They eventually forget about it and don't play through him.

It's like 1-3 touches and about 70% of them are bricks.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Lurker

[Lurker]

Howard would be fine if he didn't get angry about only having a chance at quick post up attempts (so far he hasn't but there are already rumors of discontent between him and teammates). Crash the offensive glass, play PNR, defend, and get a couple quick post ups.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Yep. Dwight should look to be more like Deke. Rebounding and defense.

There are some nights where he will have a big offensive night, but most nights it will be 10-15 points because he never developed his offensive skills or passing skills.

Dikembe's average in his 4 full seasons as a Hawk:

12.3 ppg

12.2 rebs

3.2 blks

1.2 asst

54% FG

69% FT

 

19.3 PER

59%  Total Shot %

.179 Win Score/48 min

 

 

Dwight as a Hawk this season:

14.0 ppg

13.3 rebs

1.3 blks

1.2 asst

63% FG

55% FT

 

22.5 PER

63% Total Shot %

.204 Win Score / 48 min

 

 

Thing is though, when everyone is throwing up bricks around you, and not even looking to get an easier 2, I'd get upset sometimes too, if I were Dwight.   He's averaging about 10.6 shots per game.  If they can get that up to 12 shots per game, he could average close to 17 points while still grabbing 12+ rebounds.

[Plainview1981]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Dikembe's average in his 4 full seasons as a Hawk:

12.3 ppg

12.2 rebs

3.2 blks

1.2 asst

54% FG

69% FT

 

19.3 PER

59%  Total Shot %

.179 Win Score/48 min

 

 

Dwight as a Hawk this season:

14.0 ppg

13.3 rebs

1.3 blks

1.2 asst

63% FG

55% FT

 

22.5 PER

63% Total Shot %

.204 Win Score / 48 min

 

 

Thing is though, when everyone is throwing up bricks around you, and not even looking to get an easier 2, I'd get upset sometimes too, if I were Dwight.   He's averaging about 10.6 shots per game.  If they can get that up to 12 shots per game, he could average close to 17 points while still grabbing 12+ rebounds.

He is not likely to get double figure shot attempts on any team at this point in his career. He turns the ball over, he doesn't have good passing skills out of the double team and he has limited offensive moves. Despite his high FG% he looks really old on the offensive end many of nights.  I think he has a bad back and he simply will never be what he was before.

[Plainview1981]

33 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Howard would be fine if he didn't get angry about only having a chance at quick post up attempts (so far he hasn't but there are already rumors of discontent between him and teammates). Crash the offensive glass, play PNR, defend, and get a couple quick post ups.

The problem is that it seems like Dwight has always wanted it all, but unwilling to put in the effort.

It's sad that his game is just about as a raw as it was his first few years in the league.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

The problem is that it seems like Dwight has always wanted it all, but unwilling to put in the effort.

It's sad that his game is just about as a raw as it was his first few years in the league.

Agreed. He was an awesome raw talent but he has improved minimally in all these years. I think his physical strength made him think that he could just outmuscle everyone all the time and he has done that but he hasn't sharpened his offensive skills at all hardly.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

He is not likely to get double figure shot attempts on any team at this point in his career. He turns the ball over, he doesn't have good passing skills out of the double team and he has limited offensive moves. Despite his high FG% he looks really old on the offensive end many of nights.  I think he has a bad back and he simply will never be what he was before.

Just scrolling through and sorting through a few columns

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01/gamelog/2017/

 

Hawks are 5 - 6 when he has 10 or more shot attempts

Hawks are 4 - 4 when he scores 20 or more points

Hawks are 8 - 4 when he makes 4 or more FTs

 

Hawks are 7 - 3 when he has 7 or more Offensive Rebounds

Hawks are 9 - 6 when he has 15 or more Total Rebounds

Hawks are 13 - 3 when he has a positive +/- number

 

So outside of the rebounding ( which does lead to points being scored on offense, and prevented on defense ), there's no real clear offensive metric in which Dwight affects the game positively or negatively, outside of the FTs.  The +/- can be affected by anybody, even if he's not contributing himself.

 

 

 

[StephenHawking]

vor 11 Stunden, Thomas sagte:

Yeah, the eye test theme only works if someone actually watches the game as it happens when it happens. Maybe not fair for those who can't do that consistently but the physical presence we have now is so absurdly different from last year moving towards the playoffs. Just ask the Cavs about that fight in the paint stuff. We're here now so lets take the shot.   

Probably watched more games than just about all of you guys. Only two games i didnt watch and i live in fkn germany. 

The reality is you guys especially Sothron callin out Agendas even though youre not a tad better. 

I mean I told you that Howard is a great player for us and hes great at a couple of things but you guys are overrating him as well as other underrate him. 

I cant stand that you think hes a good postup player when in fact he isnt. Look at the numbers. Make the EYE TEST. Yes he has good position but man outside of two ft away from the basket he isnt a good option. Look at the stats if you dont believe me. Watch the game and youll realize his hook shot barely touches the rim on any attempt.

Really i like Howard and his effort and game so far and He got better imo in screen setting and perimeter d and freethrows. But dont tell me hes great at things he simply isnt great at.

Things Howard has to work on: -Still perimeter d

      -Moving after setting a screen 

      -post game

You always cry about how less shots D8 gets. Well the reason is he can only score within two ft of the basket. For him to achieve that position and for the passer getting the ball there are tough things to do. His offensive game is to limited to let him have more shots from outside of 2 ft. His fg would sink drastically. 

So dont blame the passers. Blame D8 offensive abilites if you arent fine with his touches. Me im perfectly fine with his touches. He has as much as he needs to have. 

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by StephenHawking

[StephenHawking]

The problem is you see something in Howard he simply isnt. Hes no go to scorer. Hes no first option. Hell hes no second option. Hes a third option on offense and im fine with that because hes way more important on the glass than shooting to us. Howard is good. Just not at anything and thats OK, ok?

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, StephenHawking said:

The problem is you see something in Howard he simply isnt. Hes no go to scorer. Hes no first option. Hell hes no second option. Hes a third option on offense and im fine with that because hes way more important on the glass than shooting to us. Howard is good. Just not at anything and thats OK, ok?

Did you get games in Germany when he was in Orlando? Saying he's not a first or second scoring option is kinda hilarious. When a post player gets great position you get him the ball. He's either going to get a high percentage shot off or he's going to get fouled. In today's NBA and since it is Howard he's almost certainly going to get fouled. Getting him in the ball isn't just to "appease his ego" or force feed him. It is to get the other team in foul trouble and get our team in the bonus. It literally is a win/win for our chances to win games.

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

It is to get the other team in foul trouble and get our team in the bonus. It literally is a win/win for our chances to win games.

Exactly right. He's been pretty good about not making static on his touches per game to boot. Actually a bit surprised by that but he is embracing the team first/Bud concept and we're winning so I see success in the playoffs with this.