Here's a question.

[Diesel]

If we could take Hawks players from the last 17 years (since 2000) in their best year as Hawks and make up our team, what would the starting 5 look like?

I will just put out there that Bud would be the coach. 

 

[Diesel]

OK, just to provoke some thought on this... that team could look like this:

 

Jason Terry, Joe Johnson, Al Harrington, Shareef Rahim, and Al Horford.

 

Or

Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford, Joe Johnson, Antoine Walker, Dwight Howard. 

 

[Diesel]

It's interesting that our Allstar PF is not the statistical best PF to play for us over the last 17 years. 

Followup question:

 

Which Hawks player of old do you think would have strived under Bud's coaching?

[macdaddy]

Rasheed would have to start at PF

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Rasheed would have to start at PF

I considered that but he played 1 game.  Don't know if those averages would have stood.

However, here are some players I believe may have strived under Bud (in no order). 

Jason Terry, Rasheed, Antoine Walker, Ehlo, Matt Maloney, Josh Childress, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Big Dog, Isaiah Rider, Jim Jackson, Al Harrington, Toni Kukoc, and Boris Diaw. 

 

 

[AHF]

PG:  Jeff Teague (2014-15)

SG:  Joe Johnson (2006-07)

SF:  DMC (2014-15)

PF:  Al Horford (2009-10)

C:  Dikembe Mutombo (2000-01)

[NBASupes]

Jeff

Joe

Carroll

Sap

Al

[NBASupes]

Or 

 

Bibby

Joe

Sap

Al

Deke

 

Either way, I want Sap and Al on the court

At their prime

Bibby

Joe

T-Mac

Al

Dwight 

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

PG:  Jeff Teague (2014-15)

SG:  Joe Johnson (2006-07)

SF:  DMC (2014-15)

PF:  Al Horford (2009-10)

C:  Dikembe Mutombo (2000-01)

Cosign with this.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

Cosign with this.

The problem with Jeff, Joe, DMC, Horf and Deke are these:

 

Shareef was a 21/9 guy and Walker was a 20/9 guy.  I don't think Horf has been close to that.

Jason Terry was a 19/5 guy and a 18/8 guy.  Has Jeff ever been that.

And 

Do you think DMC was better than Al Harrington?

It can easily be:

Deke/Shareef/Harrington/Joe/Jeff. 

 

[capstone21]

Our best team would be the chemistry team not the best stat team ... hence why we won 60 wins with a bunch of cast offs ... so it would still be

Teague

Korver

DMC

Sap

Al 

[Peoriabird]

Bud would not be my choice

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

Our best team would be the chemistry team not the best stat team ... hence why we won 60 wins with a bunch of cast offs ... so it would still be

Teague

Korver

DMC

Sap

Al 

That assumes that Bud can't get good chemistry from other players.   I believe that Bud has the ability to make guys buy in to his system and I'm hoping that he can change his system to fit guys.  Why do I say that.. Jeff Teague.   Jeff was just as much Iso Joe as Iso Joe was when he was here.   Who could forget Teague vs. Rose.  However, Bud got Teague to buy in and Teague teetered around 8 apg and he ran a ball movement, player movement offense. Any time you can change a player from a Rose-like player to a Parker-like player.. you've done something.  Second example... DMC.   DMC was not a scorer ...ever.  He made DMC into a 3 and D guy.  This wasn't because of his personnel choice.. this was because Bud is a coach that can get buy in.  Trust the process. 

 

 

[AHF]

16 hours ago, Diesel said:

The problem with Jeff, Joe, DMC, Horf and Deke are these:

 

Shareef was a 21/9 guy and Walker was a 20/9 guy.  I don't think Horf has been close to that.

Jason Terry was a 19/5 guy and a 18/8 guy.  Has Jeff ever been that.

And 

Do you think DMC was better than Al Harrington?

It can easily be:

Deke/Shareef/Harrington/Joe/Jeff. 

 

(1)  You'll see a theme here but Horford averaged 14 and 10 in 2009-10 and scored at a .594 TS%.  He was a vastly superior defender to any season Walker or Shareef had in Atlanta or any year of their career.  

Horford:  .594 TS%, 10.9 WS

Walker:  .474 TS% (OMG that is TS% not FG%), 0.2 WS (WOW that is a WS crater)

SAR:  .536 TS%, 7.2 WS (the lowest of his time in Atlanta actually due to his inefficient scoring in that 21/9 season you are referencing)

(2)  Teague is probably the least no brainer of the bunch but this is a no brainer - Terry never defended in Atlanta and Teague did a solid job there.  He averaged 16 and 7 that year on .566 TS%.  Had a 20.6 PER and 7.7 WS.  Terry never averaged more than 7 assists per game and he scored a few points more but never defended as well as Teague in 2014-15 and never scored as efficiently as Teague in 2014-15 at any point in Atlanta.  I think this is actually defensable either way since Terry was a much better 3pt shooter so you can make an argument about his impact stretching the floor, particularly with Deke there.

(3)  DMC was a much better defender than Harrington who was always a defensive liability.  He did a bit of everything (scoring, defending, rebounding, etc.) in 2014-15 and his 7.0 WS that season are better than Al Harrington's combined WS over two seasons in Atlanta (1.6 WS his first year and 3.8 his second).  His .603 TS% crushes Al's best .513 TS%.

 

Frankly, Walker and Harrington should not be part of the conversation based on their inability to score efficiently and defend in Atlanta.  Talking about them would be like talking about Big Dog.  Shareef and Terry are closer but I'll take the better defense, scoring efficiency, and rebounding they offer.

[NBASupes]

Did Diesel try to troll and drop career losers like Walker and Reef in this thread?

What's next, Jason Terry over Bibby and Teague?

[West]

wow nobody considered j-smoove in his prime?

[macdaddy]

No way i put Jason Terry or Al Harrington anywhere near the top 5.   

[AHF]

19 minutes ago, West said:

wow nobody considered j-smoove in his prime?

I did not, but 2009-10 Josh would be the one to talk about.  That was the season he eliminated the 3pt shot and took a massively higher % of his shots near the basket (55% compared to a career average of 36.7%).  It was the closest to an efficient scorer that Smoove ever got (i.e., not close to Horf but in the range of SAR). 

21 PER, 9.3 WS, 16 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 block and 1.6 steals per game

Still saddens me that he didn't recognize that playing this way promoted his success and immediately went back to chucky mcchuckerson type shooting when Larry Drew took over and released him to go wild (7 3pta in 1999-00, 154  3pta in 2000-01).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Since 2000?   Hmmmm

 

PG candidates:  Terry, Lue, Bibby, Teague, Schröder

SG candidates:  Johnson, Crawford, Korver

SF candidates:  Big Dog Robinson, Marvin,  Demarre, Thabo

PF candidates:  Shareef, Harrington, Josh Smith, Millsap

C candidates:  Zaza, Horford, Howard

 

When I see this list, I'll have to move some people slightly out of position. or into their right position.

PG - Schröder

SG - Johnson

SF - Millsap

PF - Horford

C - Howard

 

That's the group that will give me the best chance to win.   You could mix and match pieces off the bench to give you any type of lineup you wanted.

Edited January 17, 2017 by TheNorthCydeRises

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 1/16/2017 at 10:31 AM, Diesel said:

It's interesting that our Allstar PF is not the statistical best PF to play for us over the last 17 years. 

Followup question:

 

Which Hawks player of old do you think would have strived under Bud's coaching?

You'll hate this answer . . . Marvin Williams.