We traded Mo Williams to Denver

[sturt]

1 hour ago, DS5 said:

Omigod....we're blowing it up, can't believe we traded a former all-star point guard for a euro guy that will never make our roster and then we sign Gary Neal who's been out of the league this season. 

Sorry, everyone. I just wanted to get this out, before the debbie downers start complaining. 

I'm a debbie downer on this one, but even I get the humor. :)

[macdaddy]

Just now, sturt said:

It means that Seth Curry scored 18 points last night, and with that vanished any hope that we could con DAL into sending him here for Mo and a 2nd rounder.

That's what it means.

A little more seriously... without fanatic around, honestly I don't spend as much time thinking through our salary cap position... but I suppose it came down to an auction of which other team was willing to pay us the best international player in exchange for some cap space.

Welcome back, Cenk.

For what it matters, probably nothing, I think I recall when we first drafted him, he was indeed projected as a combo guard. But as far as I'm aware, he's one of those who never actually developed into enough of an asset for us or anyone else to consider bringing him over.

Bigger news is the Neal signing.

I'm actually a little pissed about it, but I know I'm alone.

That's because this is NOT what you can legitimately consider giving our rookies a genuine shot at earning minutes.

Prince, in particular.

 

It's mid-season and Bud is going all in for the playoffs.   Bembry and Prince aren't part of those plans at this point.   It's almost too late for them to have a serious role.  Almost.   So Neal and Dunleavey will be the guys we lean on.    These may be decent moves but they aren't good enough to make this offense a real threat come playoff time.   We should be taking more risk and parting with some real assets to upgrade the wing.   Our 1,4,5 are playing at all start levels but lack of a real wing is killing us.   It's a great opportunity to really go all in.   

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

It's mid-season and Bud is going all in for the playoffs.   Bembry and Prince aren't part of those plans at this point.   It's almost too late for them to have a serious role.  Almost.   So Neal and Dunleavey will be the guys we lean on.    These may be decent moves but they aren't good enough to make this offense a real threat come playoff time.   We should be taking more risk and parting with some real assets to upgrade the wing.   Our 1,4,5 are playing at all start levels but lack of a real wing is killing us.   It's a great opportunity to really go all in.   

I agree with everything up to the "we should be taking more risk" part.

I'm just that convinced that, once you get serious about giving Prince playing time, you're going to see that guy give you a consistent 14 points every night, hitting enough 3s to be meaningful, and then filling out the rest of the stat sheet.... ie, together with Thabo, solidifying what you're getting day-in-day-out from the SF position.

I find the idea of putting up new obstacles to giving him playing time to be counterproductive in the short term, and most certainly in the long-term... hence,  my disinterest in making any big moves that complicate his development.

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'm actually a little pissed about it, but I know I'm alone.

That's because this is NOT what you can legitimately consider giving our rookies a genuine shot at earning minutes.

Prince, in particular.

 

You aren't the only one dissappointed that our developmental plan seems to be:  "Wait til next year!"

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, sturt said:

I agree with everything up to the "we should be taking more risk" part.

I'm just that convinced that, once you get serious about giving Prince playing time, you're going to see that guy give you a consistent 14 points every night, hitting enough 3s to be meaningful, and then filling out the rest of the stat sheet.... ie, together with Thabo, solidifying what you're getting day-in-day-out from the SF position.

I find the idea of putting up new obstacles to giving him playing time to be counterproductive in the short term, and most certainly in the long-term... hence,  my disinterest in making any big moves that complicate his development.

I agree with that too.  I'm just looking at the reality that Bud isn't going to make Prince a rotation player this year.   Sap and Howard aren't spring chickens and they are having great years.   We should be trying to capitalize on that and pull an upset.   How to do that I don't know but we seem unwilling to part with anything of value.  

[hazer]

What am I missing here? Neal is a 2, The Fresh Prince is a 3. To me this delays Bembry's development, not Prince's.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, hazer said:

What am I missing here? Neal is a 2, The Fresh Prince is a 3. To me this delays Bembry's development, not Prince's.

true but Dunleavy already knocked Prince off the tracks:  Sadly here's our wing depth chart:

Baze/Tim/Neal/Bembry

Thabo/Dunleavy/Baze/Prince

I don't think Bembry is really an answer this year so the Neal signing isn't a big deal to me.   Not sure how he will get time though.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

What am I missing here? Neal is a 2, The Fresh Prince is a 3. To me this delays Bembry's development, not Prince's.

True, if only Bud thought of the wings as 2s and 3s, but he's consistently tried to make the case that he only thinks of them all as wings in this system... and to the point, that idea was reaffirmed when he told C-Viv after the Korver trade that those minutes would get redistributed among the rookies and THjr.

Now, how much of that "I only think of them as wings" is likely to be borne out in reality? Hard to say at the moment, because when you look at the top 5-man units on 82games, nearly all of them are assembled with either Korver at the 3 (7), or Thabo (11). Then, Prince had 1, and THjr had 1. It's yet to be determined.

But I hope, of course, that you're right, and that Bud's more conscious about height at the 3 than he's let on.

EDIT: And hey.... I vaguely (at this point) remember thinking that maybe Bembry would be thought-of as a good enough ball handler and distributor that he'd get a genuine look as our 3rd PG.

Maybe?

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Theory:

The signing of Gary Neal will allow Bud to send one or both of the kids to the D-League.  

[Lurker]

You don't grow and develop by never playing. It's much more likely it'll throw you off your rhythm than teach you anything.

[Thomas]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Theory:

The signing of Gary Neal will allow Bud to send one or both of the kids to the D-League.  

Where Neal just came from.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Theory:

The signing of Gary Neal will allow Bud to send one or both of the kids to the D-League.  

If it's between one I hope Bembry goes to the D league and Prince stays.

[Thomas]

Bud really is hard on the kids. Against Boston Bembry helped us close the gap and helped give us a chance for the win and a game or two before Prince gave us fifty percent from three and had stats in every category. They helped us but moving forward they can't improve for the playoffs if they don't play. Hope Bud is seeing it right and Neal is a viable option.

[sturt]

50 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Theory:

The signing of Gary Neal will allow Bud to send one or both of the kids to the D-League.  

This will happen if... as I hate to say I suspect... there's no 3rd PG relief coming in the form of Bembry.

Honestly, if we don't get a 3rd PG in here absorbing at least a few minutes most nights, it makes me very nervous... yes, Dennis is young and has a lot of energy, and yes, Delaney isn't that much older... but I can see one or both hitting a wall at just the wrong time you want to see players hitting a wall.

 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, hazer said:

What am I missing here? Neal is a 2, The Fresh Prince is a 3. To me this delays Bembry's development, not Prince's.

Neal is a 2.  Bazemore is a 2.  If Neal gets minutes we can't reduce Baze's minutes!  Therefore Baze gets more minutes at SF to everyone's relief.  Prince shakes his head from the bench.

[Guest]

Super small 3 guard lineup: Dennis, Malcom and Gary. Lol

[sturt]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Neal is a 2.  Bazemore is a 2.  If Neal gets minutes we can't reduce Baze's minutes!  Therefore Baze gets more minutes at SF to everyone's relief.  Prince shakes his head from the bench.

 

[hazer]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

True, if only Bud thought of the wings as 2s and 3s, but he's consistently tried to make the case that he only thinks of them all as wings in this system... and to the point, that idea was reaffirmed when he told C-Viv after the Korver trade that those minutes would get redistributed among the rookies and THjr.

Now, how much of that "I only think of them as wings" is likely to be borne out in reality? Hard to say at the moment, because when you look at the top 5-man units on 82games, nearly all of them are assembled with either Korver at the 3 (7), or Thabo (11). Then, Prince had 1, and THjr had 1. It's yet to be determined.

But I hope, of course, that you're right, and that Bud's more conscious about height at the 3 than he's let on.

EDIT: And hey.... I vaguely (at this point) remember thinking that maybe Bembry would be thought-of as a good enough ball handler and distributor that he'd get a genuine look as our 3rd PG.

Maybe?

 

I hear Bud say that, but Hawks still play positions. Neal isn't ahead of Prince subbing for Thabo at the 3.

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, hazer said:

I hear Bud say that, but Hawks still play positions. Neal isn't ahead of Prince subbing for Thabo at the 3.

Right.

But I believe @AHF is correct in suggesting that Baze would be ahead of him.

[hazer]

14 minutes ago, sturt said:

Right.

But I believe @AHF is correct in suggesting that Baze would be ahead of him.

Well of course he is. We're talking about Neal coming in here and taking minutes from Prince though.  It's just not going to happen.

Edited January 18, 2017 by hazer