I expect this to be the starting lineup next season....

[Lurker]

You just can't risk giving up even mid-rangers.

[Lurker]

Paul Millsap is out for the next two games.

37-34, here we come.

[Lurker]

So Bazemore's also going to be out for a while, potentially longer than Millsap.

This may be a GOOD thing. Considering that Millsap means the difference between a mediocre/average team and a putrid team (not based on his talent) it's time to try a seriously different lineup.

Either way, serious changes need to happen over the summer. If both Bazemore and Howard are back, I'm checking out. Bazemore more than Howard. If its Bazemore that stays, that's my breaking point for a while.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

So Bazemore's also going to be out for a while, potentially longer than Millsap.

This may be a GOOD thing. Considering that Millsap means the difference between a mediocre/average team and a putrid team (not based on his talent) it's time to try a seriously different lineup.

Either way, serious changes need to happen over the summer. If both Bazemore and Howard are back, I'm checking out. Bazemore more than Howard. If its Bazemore that stays, that's my breaking point for a while.

Perfect time to move Prince into the starting lineup.  Bud won't do it though.  He'll start THj or even do something like start Delaney and Dennis together.

[Lurker]

27 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Perfect time to move Prince into the starting lineup.  Bud won't do it though.  He'll start THj or even do something like start Delaney and Dennis together.

Seems like you're starting to get where I'm coming from. The scoring could be fine, but a lineup of:

Schröder/Hardaway Jr/Sefolosha/Ilyasova/Howard

Is asking for trouble. Sefolosha can't play defense for four players, and he isn't even fully right at the moment.

It's very bold, but I actually would not start Ilyasova for starters of what I'd do different. Prince's defensive versatility is needed...at the 4. It's possible he can pull off what Millsap does on defense.

Remove Ilyasova from the starting lineup, move Prince and Hardaway Jr in it, adjust your rotations.

The major problem with this though is the Hawks are boned with their depth. I wouldn't play Prince exclusively at the 4, but if the Hawks want to stay afloat they badly, badly need to play him at least 15 MPG at that position when Millsap isn't available. Starting him would get the team off on a good track before you play different players.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Lurker

[JTB]

8 hours ago, benhillboy said:

We've gotten excellent value out of him in his Hawks career.  He's also a cinch to move this offseason.  Dwight is a decent value, Baze's horrible.

Arguably the most telling stat for a team is simply point differential.  We finished +3.6 last season.  Based on Hubie Browns scale, a team that can be easily predicted to bow out in the second round.  We're at -.9 at the moment, most likely indicative of a routine first-round out.  4.5 points worse per game is huge and can't be a coincidence when adding 30 minutes a night of Dwight to the equation.  Baze's regression to his true player profile and a monumental drop off in backup PG play factors in too no doubt.  But it seems evident the change of style on both ends to suit Dwight hurts more than helps.  You can't defend his effort on defending away from the rim most nights, you just can't.

Sorry Thabo don't get credit just because we got some value out of him in his early years with the Hawks. 

Howard can have horfords screen ability and Baze and Thabo still wouldn't be able to do shit offensively! Pick and pop, pick and roll, pick and literally knock the player to the ground and Thabo/Baze still can't give you anything offensively.

oh and point differential means nothing to me...this team wasn't good at scoring last year with a stretch big in horford and now they aren't good at scoring with a traditional center in Howard. We've been ranked in the 20s in offense these last two seasons....so when we gon place the blame on having shitty wings?

[JTB]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

This is what the Hawks tried yesterday and uhhh.

You got to score on the other end it's not all about defense. Offense is your defense at times throughout the game. The Hawks can't score consistently but I guess you think that's all Howard's fault too ....smh...it's beyond me how one player is blamed for all the teams flaws.

[Lurker]

I hate going over this again but there is a major difference if a bad offensive player actually gets hand fed their shots. Thabo and Baze were bad last year but acceptable. Can you notice the difference? They were hand fed rhythm jumpers and layups off of cuts in which they didn't have to do anything.

This year the difference is they are NOT BEING HAND FED off of the high post in offense and have to take too many shots that AREN'T THEIR SHOTS. When they are HAND FED, they do not look bad AT ALL. But Howard chooses to not hand feed off the high post as he cares more about posting up than running the offense.

And no, Taurean Prince has shown an intriguing sign but him starting ain't the answer to solving the issue of more players being able to create their own shot without it being a hand fed shot either. With him playing with better players, he's not trying to create because he knows that is not who he is.

And I think he should start up in Charlotte and play at least 30 minutes in a close game, but it's because of a different issue that I talked about above.

[JTB]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

So Bazemore's also going to be out for a while, potentially longer than Millsap.

This may be a GOOD thing. Considering that Millsap means the difference between a mediocre/average team and a putrid team (not based on his talent) it's time to try a seriously different lineup.

Either way, serious changes need to happen over the summer. If both Bazemore and Howard are back, I'm checking out. Bazemore more than Howard. If its Bazemore that stays, that's my breaking point for a while.

I wish I could find the numbers on how terrible the Hawks are at feeding Howard the ball in post. I can admit Howard does some things wrong but completely blaming Howard and not seeing the positives he brings is ridiculous.

 

Offensively-

this team can't even feed Howard the ball when he's rightfully in position for an easy basket or to draw a foul.

defensively- 

as you stated this team can't fight through screens and stick with their own man but this too is Howard's fault somehow.....smh yeah riiiiggghhhttt

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

You got to score on the other end it's not all about defense. Offense is your defense at times throughout the game. The Hawks can't score consistently but I guess you think that's all Howard's fault too ....smh...it's beyond me how one player is blamed for all the teams flaws.

Howard is a part of the reason that the Hawks can't score consistently and y'all aren't realizing it. Unless Howard is spoonfed, he can't create his own offense.

The Hawks basically have THREE non threats in the starting lineup offensively. I mean if Howard was an offensive threat, why would Portland ignore him on offense?

[JTB]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Howard is a part of the reason that the Hawks can't score consistently and y'all aren't realizing it. Unless Howard is spoonfed, he can't create his own offense.

The Hawks basically have THREE non threats in the starting lineup offensively. I mean if Howard was an offensive threat, why would Portland ignore him on offense?

They can't feed Howard the ball even when he's in position for an easy bucket or to draw a foul...therefore how is Howard solely to blame for the offense? ...we knew going in Howard wasn't a scorer . What we didn't know was that he was going to constantly receive horrible ass entry passes in the post from his teammates.

[Lurker]

Just now, JTB said:

I wish I could find the numbers on how terrible the Hawks are at feeding Howard the ball in post. I can admit Howard does some things wrong but completely blaming Howard and not seeing the positives he brings is ridiculous.

 

Offensively-

this team can't even feed Howard the ball when he's rightfully in position for an easy basket or to draw a foul.

defensively- 

as you stated this team can't fight through screens and stick with their own man but this too is Howard's fault somehow.....smh yeah riiiiggghhhttt

I'm sorry but its not like a team is going to be able to fight over screens 100% of the time. Unless your perimeter players can fight over 100% of the time, they will need to have a very mobile center today or the defense is going to suck. There is no ifs, ands, or buts to it.

[Lurker]

Just now, JTB said:

They can't feed Howard the ball even when he's in position for an easy bucket or to draw a foul...therefore how is Howard solely to blame for the offense? ...we knew going in Howard wasn't a scorer . What we didn't know was that he was going to constantly receive horrible ass entry passes in the post from his teammates.

Because he only gives a s*** about posting up and not RUNNING the high post offense.

Because he can't create his own shot at all.

Because he can't even set a good screen on Damian Lillard.

Because he clogs up the paint and prevents Millsap from being able to be whimsical inside the arc and do his thing of dribble drive and pass/score.

There is a lot that goes into it and honestly unless Howard just accepts he's not Orlando Howard it's not going to work. He needs to be a roll man in the PNR and roll HARD, be willing to pass if covered, or just sit down and be traded in the summer.

[Lurker]

Millsap and Howard don't fit together offensively and will never fit together offensively. Millsap's best skillset is being whimsical inside the arc and a guy that can't shoot or roll hard to the rim is blocking that ability from him, reason for his FG being bad.

They worked together defensively...when Howard was bothering with moving his feet and now he's not.

[JTB]

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I hate going over this again but there is a major difference if a bad offensive player actually gets hand fed their shots. Thabo and Baze were bad last year but acceptable. Can you notice the difference? They were hand fed rhythm jumpers and layups off of cuts in which they didn't have to do anything.

This year the difference is they are NOT BEING HAND FED off of the high post in offense and have to take too many shots that AREN'T THEIR SHOTS. When they are HAND FED, they do not look bad AT ALL. But Howard chooses to not hand feed off the high post as he cares more about posting up than running the offense.

And no, Taurean Prince has shown an intriguing sign but him starting ain't the answer to solving the issue of more players being able to create their own shot without it being a hand fed shot either. With him playing with better players, he's not trying to create because he knows that is not who he is.

And I think he should start up in Charlotte and play at least 30 minutes in a close game, but it's because of a different issue that I talked about above.

Sorry this is halfway bullshit....I've seen Thabo/Baze too many times try to be playmakers, dribble the ball for long periods of time on the shot clock, get out on fast breaks and just do the dumbest shit you can think of....but hey I'm not mad they aren't offensively talented so no surprise.

but we can't blame every or even most flaws on Dwight. Your not seeing how bad Thabo/Baze are offensively. No matter how you get put it those two while on the floor together is the problem by the eye test and even the stats.

im not shocked at all that Howard looks way better with Hardaway in the lineup...YOU DONT GO OUT AND GET DWIGHT AND THEN NOT PROVIDE ANY SHOOTERS AROUND HIM 

[JTB]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Because he only gives a s*** about posting up and not RUNNING the high post offense.

Because he can't create his own shot at all.

Because he can't even set a good screen on Damian Lillard.

Because he clogs up the paint and prevents Millsap from being able to be whimsical inside the arc and do his thing of dribble drive and pass/score.

There is a lot that goes into it and honestly unless Howard just accepts he's not Orlando Howard it's not going to work. He needs to be a roll man in the PNR and roll HARD, be willing to pass if covered, or just sit down and be traded in the summer.

You act like this isn't happening. Howard is setting screens and rolling to the goal! And you know what happens from there? Some dumbass (Baze, Thabo) gets the ball and takes a wide open shot they can't make. 

and so what if he post up sometimes! If he's in position for an easy shot get the ball to him.

we aren't going to see eye to eye so I will leave it at that. Howard could be effective offensively every night if this team could get him the damn ball when he has the defense on his back! But no they either throw it to his feet (explain that one???) or over throw it to the man above!

instead of blaming Howard on everything...we need to call it what it is and say this team as a whole just don't know how to play with a traditional center.

[Lurker]

30 minutes ago, JTB said:

Sorry this is halfway bullshit....I've seen Thabo/Baze too many times try to be playmakers, dribble the ball for long periods of time on the shot clock, get out on fast breaks and just do the dumbest shit you can think of....but hey I'm not mad they aren't offensively talented so no surprise.

but we can't blame every or even most flaws on Dwight. Your not seeing how bad Thabo/Baze are offensively. No matter how you get put it those two while on the floor together is the problem by the eye test and even the stats.

im not shocked at all that Howard looks way better with Hardaway in the lineup...YOU DONT GO OUT AND GET DWIGHT AND THEN NOT PROVIDE ANY SHOOTERS AROUND HIM 

Sorry but this is an old wives tale now, it wouldn't matter who was playing with Dwight, he'd still be ineffective, even if he gets shots he misses a lot of wide open hooks.

the only thing that he should do offensively is roll hard and look to get stick backs.

and if he's surrounded, why force it to him? That started the offense completely getting thrown out of whack and the 1-10 stretch.

[BigDog90]

14 hours ago, JTB said:

Personally I prefer this lineup right now cause at this point there's nothing to lose. Hawks highest ceiling this season is either first or second round out (really typical season from recent years during this 10 straight playoff streak)

Anyhow I call this starting lineup "On to da future":

pg- Schröder aka "lil goldie"

sg- THJ (love when the arena announcer says T!...H!...J!....just sounds so star like! lol)

sf- Prince 

pf- Sap

c- Howard 

 

i believe the "on to da future" lineup give the Hawks the best possible out come going forward on both sides of the ball, while also developing chemistry among Dennis, THJ, Prince...who should be our starters at those positions for a very long time.

 

 

thoughts? If any?

I'm afraid to see your bench if Millsap resigns. I doubt Prince starts. It seems like if you aren't a year 3+ player for Bud you don't start.

My starters

PG - Dennis

SG - Hardaway

SF - Baze

PF - Ersan

C - Dwight

 

[BigDog90]

14 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I dont see any reason to bring this core back other than wanting to sell less tickets and receive less national attention.  Baze, Sap, and Dwight simply can't make those salaries and play those roles for a small market team.  On a real contender Dwight is a backup, Baze a 9th-10th man, and Sap a third option.  Here they're just a drop of a hat away from a blowout on any given night.  With the Bazemore albatross I can't see Hardaway turning down the offers he's gonna get elsewhere.

I agree. Hardaway is a RFA so ATL can and should match any offer he gets.

[BigDog90]

13 hours ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

I've actually put a lot of thought into this.... I honestly think bud knows he's building towards the future team with the roster assembled the way it is because if you think about it... 

 

1.Dwight will more than likely stay here for the remainder of his career and if that is indeed the case he will have to take a lesser role especially if we find a Center who is capable of starting. And if he does decide he wants to resign after his current contract expires it will be on a Al Jefferson/David Lee type deal so he could just be a rotational big man

 

2.Im fully confident in this front office to get rid of Baze so we can pay THJ and of course in the future Bembry and Prince. 

 

3.We'll find a backup PG

 

4.Dont be surprised if we don't resign Millsap. He isn't a piece that makes this team better in future years, and granted while I love Sap he should really strongly consider a return to Utah or maybe sign with a PF needy team like Detroit,San Antonio,or Memphis

Yeah Millsap needs to go. ATL tried to make him their #1 option when he's clearly not that guy. He's a great 3rd option on a contender. You don't pay 3rd option maxes starting at 33 mil a year.

I see him signing to DEN. He got ties to DEN and DEN wanted him this past summer.