Floundering

[Lurker]

Let me say it again, I don't think the actual plan was for it to be all three of the bigs, but for Millsap to be traded for assets, but in the process of trying to do this, Horford's feelings got hurt. I don't think it really mattered if he was offered a full max after Howard was signed first, he was gone, gone, and gone.

Reading in between the tea leaves, I don't see Millsap coming back for a while longer and I bet Sefolosha is done for a while too. It might not be too hurtful that Sefolosha is done, because I might throw things if I see a 75% done Dunleavy get more minutes than Prince.

[Bankingitbig]

I have a hard time seeing the front office (Budcox though especially Wilcox) not bringing back Millsap at all costs. You can't have your top two players walk in free agency in consecutive seasons without getting a single return for them. Additionally, you can't go from a 60-win team two seasons ago with four all-stars and lose all of your starters with only Prince, Dunleavy and a 2019 first round pick to show for it. On top of all of that, you had the front office explicitly saying that they plan to bring back Millsap and ownership is raising ticket prices. Wilcox is in a lose-lose situation. You don't bring back Millsap (with a likely max or near max contract) then you failed your promise and have no assets to show for it two years in a row - likely leading to you losing your job (imo). You bring back Millsap and are a treadmill team, but at least he gets to try and salvage his job - though very difficult as he won't have much flexibility in constructing a roster.

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

I have a hard time seeing the front office (Budcox though especially Wilcox) not bringing back Millsap at all costs. You can't have your top two players walk in free agency in consecutive seasons without getting a single return for them. Additionally, you can't go from a 60-win team two seasons ago with four all-stars and lose all of your starters with only Prince, Dunleavy and a 2019 first round pick to show for it. On top of all of that, you had the front office explicitly saying that they plan to bring back Millsap and ownership is raising ticket prices. Wilcox is in a lose-lose situation. You don't bring back Millsap (with a likely max or near max contract) then you failed your promise and have no assets to show for it two years in a row - likely leading to you losing your job (imo). You bring back Millsap and are a treadmill team, but at least he gets to try and salvage his job - though very difficult as he won't have much flexibility in constructing a roster.

You guys say this without the thought that maybe we didn't have much offered for Sap. If the best deal is a late 1st and a player who doesn't fit our style like Terrance Ross who is the opposite of a player with Basketball instincts, maybe just maybe, we didn't have the offer available. Add to the fact that this seems like a 46-48 win team, it makes sense to keep him and try to win a trade but if he's gonna leave if we can't give the best team to win or he wants a 207 contract, it's time to move on. I believe Atlanta made the best decision to not trade Millsap to Toronto. If the offer was there, rebuilding would have been here but since ASB, we have won less games than anyone in the NBA outside of the Lakers. This team is one of the least talented and rebuilding will take place very soon unless somehow we could get Jimmy Butler. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by NBASupes

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You guys say this without the thought that maybe we didn't have much offered for Sap. If the best deal is a late 1st and a player who doesn't fit our style like Terrance Ross who is the opposite of a player with Basketball instincts, maybe just maybe, we didn't have the offer available. Add to the fact that this seems like a 46-48 win team, it makes sense to keep him and try to win a trade but if he's gonna leave if we can't give the best team to win or he wants a 207 contract, it's time to move on. I believe Atlanta made the best decision to not trade Millsap to Toronto. If the offer was there, rebuilding would have been here but since ASB, we have won less games than anyone in the NBA outside of the Lakers. This team is one of the least talented and rebuilding will take place very soon unless somehow we could get Jimmy Butler. 

You make a trade that actual helps you going forward, not just make a trade to say you got something.  Sometimes the best trade is no trade.

[Bankingitbig]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You guys say this without the thought that maybe we didn't have much offered for Sap. If the best deal is a late 1st and a player who doesn't fit our style like Terrance Ross who is the opposite of a player with Basketball instincts, maybe just maybe, we didn't have the offer available. Add to the fact that this seems like a 46-48 win team, it makes sense to keep him and try to win a trade but if he's gonna leave if we can't give the best team to win or he wants a 207 contract, it's time to move on. I believe Atlanta made the best decision to not trade Millsap to Toronto. If the offer was there, rebuilding would have been here but since ASB, we have won less games than anyone in the NBA outside of the Lakers. This team is one of the least talented and rebuilding will take place very soon unless somehow we could get Jimmy Butler. 

No I say this with the thought that keeping Horford at a max of ~$154M/5years is much more favorable to paying Millsap a potential max of ~$209M/5years. They knew at the time what the market was for Millsap in terms of trade value. Waiting another half-season was only going to diminish the potential returns he would get. At the time, they also knew that Millsap would likely be looking for a max or at the very least a deal that begins above his cap hold. So they knew all of this and instead of just giving a near max to Horford (recall Horford reportedly just wanted a ~$145M deal), the front office decided it would be better to let Al walk and, by all indications given, plans to try and resign Millsap to a deal that will be far above Al's. The economics of that make absolutely no sense to me without even considering that they could then deal Millsap and get some return if they wanted to.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

No I say this with the thought that keeping Horford at a max of ~$154M/5years is much more favorable to paying Millsap a potential max of ~$209M/5years. They knew at the time what the market was for Millsap in terms of trade value. Waiting another half-season was only going to diminish the potential returns he would get. At the time, they also knew that Millsap would likely be looking for a max or at the very least a deal that begins above his cap hold. So they knew all of this and instead of just giving a near max to Horford (recall Horford reportedly just wanted a ~$145M deal), the front office decided it would be better to let Al walk and, by all indications given, plans to try and resign Millsap to a deal that will be far above Al's. The economics of that make absolutely no sense to me without even considering that they could then deal Millsap and get some return if they wanted to.

Seeing that Miami, Phoenix and Denver have the need and the money. It's likely Sap is gone unless we give him a Joe Johnson type of deal which would be horrible seeing how bad this team is. 

[Bankingitbig]

22 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Seeing that Miami, Phoenix and Denver have the need and the money. It's likely Sap is gone unless we give him a Joe Johnson type of deal which would be horrible seeing how bad this team is. 

I hope so, not because I don't like Millsap, but because we just aren't going to seriously contend with this team and that contract would cripple us.

That said, if you are Wilcox - how do you seriously justify not resigning Millsap no matter what it takes? That's my point... You can't be the GM that has his two best players leave in back-to-back seasons while you said the whole time that you wanted to resign them and then not get a single dime in return for them leaving. You let him walk and you know you are going to come under serious fire and be on a major hot seat, if not just let go. You resign him (even if to a crippling deal), then you get to say that you kept your promise and resigned your all-star which gives you a bit more time to salvage your job. It's a lose-lose. That is why I am fearful that the Hawks actually will resign him no matter what, then you also include the fact that ownership is increasing ticket prices and likely wouldn't want a rebuilding team during that process. Who knows though.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Bankingitbig

[BrazilianHawk]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Not understanding the 'Bud the drunkard' repeatedly.  Is that supposed to be funny?  A DUI he was acquitted of.  what else do you have to back this up?

 

You are right, so I'll drop it. I guess I'm just frustrated. He and the team as a whole are driving me nuts.

[macdaddy]

8 minutes ago, BrazilianHawk said:

You are right, so I'll drop it. I guess I'm just frustrated. He and the team as a whole are driving me nuts.

We all are being driven nuts.   I agree.

[Thomas]

About Sap and Thabo possibly bailing for a contract, this in Vin Diesel's voice "If you say so". May indeed be true but their track record doesn't reveal that attitude ever in their careers and whether it really is their last contract or not they are rich beyond reason anyway. Hoping it is not that simple that they would be satisfied just sitting on the bench if they can actually get on the court and help.   

[Guest]

[Diesel]

23 hours ago, Bankingitbig said:

No I say this with the thought that keeping Horford at a max of ~$154M/5years is much more favorable to paying Millsap a potential max of ~$209M/5years. They knew at the time what the market was for Millsap in terms of trade value. Waiting another half-season was only going to diminish the potential returns he would get. At the time, they also knew that Millsap would likely be looking for a max or at the very least a deal that begins above his cap hold. So they knew all of this and instead of just giving a near max to Horford (recall Horford reportedly just wanted a ~$145M deal), the front office decided it would be better to let Al walk and, by all indications given, plans to try and resign Millsap to a deal that will be far above Al's. The economics of that make absolutely no sense to me without even considering that they could then deal Millsap and get some return if they wanted to.

I think that the front office made a decision to let this team try.  It's good faith to other free agents that they didn't move Sap simply due to his contract.  We are not that kind of a destination.  Still, Sap had the opportunity to play himself into a max deal or out of one.  I think he has played himself out of one.  His thing was defense.  His defense looks feeble right now.   Let Budcox make an offer... and if he doesn't accept, let him walk.  It can be said that we showed loyalty to him.  Sign THJr and begin the future.

 

[Diesel]

About us floundering..

 

I've been rehabbing a nasty cod addiction.. but... I think this team is in cruise mode.  I think we have vets and they know that these games don't matter.  Sorta like the elites... but we don't have elites.  I believe come playoff time, we will snap out of our freefall and put up some good play.  I call it dynamically resting our starters.

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Diesel said:

About us floundering..

 

I've been rehabbing a nasty cod addiction.. but... I think this team is in cruise mode.  I think we have vets and they know that these games don't matter.  Sorta like the elites... but we don't have elites.  I believe come playoff time, we will snap out of our freefall and put up some good play.  I call it dynamically resting our starters.

 

That's where I'm at. People shouldn't worry about us, when the playoffscimd we will be ready.(at least for round 1).

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

That's where I'm at. People shouldn't worry about us, when the playoffscimd we will be ready.(at least for round 1).

I would love to believe that. If we were playing well and still losing I'd be on board. There isn't one thing that this team is doing well enough in any facet of the game to say 'this will carry us in the playoffs.'

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I would love to believe that. If we were playing well and still losing I'd be on board. There isn't one thing that this team is doing well enough in any facet of the game to say 'this will carry us in the playoffs.'

Ya I don't blame you. I just think if we can get Sap, Thabo and Baze back we can make some noise. I think we can get it going. We are built for the playoffs. #trusttheprocess..

[Thomas]

The Buck's game gave us some glimpses but we don't even have the bodies right now whether they are possibly enough or not. Really a double negative here.

[macdaddy]

17 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

Ya I don't blame you. I just think if we can get Sap, Thabo and Baze back we can make some noise. I think we can get it going. We are built for the playoffs. #trusttheprocess..

I'm really skeptical of any of those guys coming back and being effective.  

[Thomas]

Yeah, Thabo came back earlier from injury and it took several games for him to muster up one good one. So even though he made a strong difference defensively for us against the Cavs last year in the playoffs I don't see him physically able to provide anything close to that now. When was the last time he was one hundred percent, may not have even been a Hawk then. 

[AHF]

On 3/28/2017 at 0:21 PM, Diesel said:

About us floundering..

 

I've been rehabbing a nasty cod addiction.. but... I think this team is in cruise mode.  I think we have vets and they know that these games don't matter.  Sorta like the elites... but we don't have elites.  I believe come playoff time, we will snap out of our freefall and put up some good play.  I call it dynamically resting our starters.

 

 

 

 

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