What do you believe would be Dumars plan as Hawks GM?

[Admin]

Reading between the lines and with the gut feeling that this Dumars thing is legit and will probably happen sooner rather later... What do you think his short and long term goal will be?

 

Will he try and keep Sap and try to add to this year's team? Or will he let Sap go and then attempt to move Howard and/or Bazemore just to get out from under their contracts? Does he move the young guys to try and build an older vet type team?

 

On the negative side he is like bad taste Oprah giving out huge contracts to one way and sometimes franchise killing players. He doesn't seem to like to admit those mistakes or have an ability to correct them. I can't imagine his reputation around the league is that of someone who is to be respected or that he understands the modern game. Outside of getting Ferry * 10 luck from a random bunch of castoffs and older players he's put together absolute crap for teams. He won't feel any sense of connection to our young guys since he didn't draft them and may throw them away in trades.

 

On the plus side Dumars has a good draft track record and he gets a pass for Darko. He knows how to build a good defensive team and likes 3pt shooters. Oh and he's not likely to make any racually insensitive remarks...

 

All in all I'm pretty much sick to my stomach over the thought of Dumars as our GM and even though I doubt Griffin would be a good GM at least there would be some mystery with him.

 

What other candidates are out there who'd be better for us?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest]

So just as your about to sell me on Dumars 3 and D then ur sick to your stomach...dang it I was reaching for my wallet...

[NBASupes]

At this point, Sap has options. We are at his mercy to a large degree. 

Dwight can be moved but it won't be for a decent assets.

Bazemore is pretty much stuck here. For the teams that would take him, they will give us a trash contract back. Not worth it.

[hazer]

There has to be someone better out there...

[capstone21]

I hope it is not Dumars either ... I really questioned his decision making later in his GM career 

[AUhawksfan]

The title of this thread was cruel.....

[macdaddy]

I'm guessing first we'd be welcoming J-Smoove back to the Hawks.   

[KB21]

There is absolutely no evidence that Joe Dumars is unwilling to learn from his mistakes.  Actually, it is quite the opposite. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/vertical-pod-with-woj--joe-dumars-154952819.html

 

That's Joe on The Vertical Podcast with Adrian Wojo.  He very clearly states that he has had time to reflect on what happened at the end of his tenure and the things he would have done differently. 

 

He has by far the best resume of any possible candidate available.  I mean, he has actually built a championship team and did it without a superstar player. 

My three big questions to him would be:

1.  Are you more willing to embrace and utilize the abundance of data that is now available to help with decision making?

2.  What changes would you make to have better working relationships with your coaches?

3.  Do you believe that tanking to get draft picks is an acceptable strategy?

 

If the answer to the third question is yes, then don't hire him.  Move on.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AUhawksfan said:

The title of this thread was cruel.....

Agreed.  OP should be temp-bannt.

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There is absolutely no evidence that Joe Dumars is unwilling to learn from his mistakes.  Actually, it is quite the opposite. 

That's not the point.  The point is, did he do a good job and should he be given another chance over someone else with fresh ideas more closely aligned with the NBA circa 2018 and beyond.

Based on everything I've ever read about Dumars, he comes across as stubborn to a fault.  Not what I'd be willing to drop into a situation where his coach and at least one highly-ranking staff member are already entrenched.  That's a recipe for disaster.

And I don't care what he says on a podcast where he's probably lobbying for a job.  It's been a long time since he's been relevant as a GM and it's not like he built and re-built multiple championship teams.  They had a great run with that same squad but he showed a woeful lack of the ability to build off that run.  Let him re-learn the trade in IND or ORL.

[macdaddy]

Dumars built a champion when defense and slow pace could make you a contender.  Those days are long gone.  

[thecampster]

#1 requirement of our next GM is assembling a coaching staff that is dedicated to player development. I want guys who will work with young players in the off-season on the small parts of their game that affect winning and losing. Free throw shooting coaches, foot work coaches, classes on positioning/filtering/nutrition.

Some of the things I have heard about young assets on teams has made me do double takes. When I heard Dwight this year say he had a 10,000 calorie candy bar habit at one point in his youth or the issues Mike Scott had. I firmly believe that organizations do not portray the message to new players that they have their best interest at heart. For most of these players, they are fundamentals poor and lacking discipline. A coaching staff that can relate to the Jared Sullingers of the world is how San Antonio built championships. They took other peoples' trash and made it their treasure.

I am not talking about what we did with Demarre....I am talking about no wasted years from rookies. A program that explains to rookies day one what being a pro is. That we draft people and 2 weeks later they are playing and starring in summer league is idiotic to me.  I've never worked for a company that didn't have an extensive training program no matter what skill I brought in. A GM that understands the dangers young players face from friends, women, diet, discipline and self could go a long way. In short, I want an organization that cares about the whole player.

[Watchman]

Immediately pursue Josh Smith and Darko Millicic with max contracts.

[GameTime]

5 hours ago, KB21 said:

There is absolutely no evidence that Joe Dumars is unwilling to learn from his mistakes.  Actually, it is quite the opposite. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/vertical-pod-with-woj--joe-dumars-154952819.html

 

That's Joe on The Vertical Podcast with Adrian Wojo.  He very clearly states that he has had time to reflect on what happened at the end of his tenure and the things he would have done differently. 

 

He has by far the best resume of any possible candidate available.  I mean, he has actually built a championship team and did it without a superstar player. 

My three big questions to him would be:

1.  Are you more willing to embrace and utilize the abundance of data that is now available to help with decision making?

2.  What changes would you make to have better working relationships with your coaches?

3.  Do you believe that tanking to get draft picks is an acceptable strategy?

 

If the answer to the third question is yes, then don't hire him.  Move on.

 

 

Interesting that Rick Sund mentored Dumars before he became the GM for the Detroit Pistons.

The Grant Hill and Rick Sund connection is making this look like a done deal IMO.

[JTB]

14 hours ago, kg01 said:

Agreed.  OP should be temp-bannt.

That's not the point.  The point is, did he do a good job and should he be given another chance over someone else with fresh ideas more closely aligned with the NBA circa 2018 and beyond.

Based on everything I've ever read about Dumars, he comes across as stubborn to a fault.  Not what I'd be willing to drop into a situation where his coach and at least one highly-ranking staff member are already entrenched.  That's a recipe for disaster.

And I don't care what he says on a podcast where he's probably lobbying for a job.  It's been a long time since he's been relevant as a GM and it's not like he built and re-built multiple championship teams.  They had a great run with that same squad but he showed a woeful lack of the ability to build off that run.  Let him re-learn the trade in IND or ORL.

 

12 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Dumars built a champion when defense and slow pace could make you a contender.  Those days are long gone.  

I think dumars basketball intelligence is being questioned however that isn't is a real issue with him. Most GMs go through an episode of bad timing at some point if they are able to keep their jobs long enough. 

Dumars understands the era he's in, he's not unaware. Bringing up that he built a slow paced defense to win a championship in 2004 shouldn't be a knock on his resume.

ive lighten up on dumars and while he's absolutely made some horrible decisions Im just as terrified to see what unproven potential GMs like weaver may end up doing in office!...at least with dumars we can be assured that we know he knows where he screwed up last time , where as the new guys how can you really hold their feet to fire being a first time GM?

 

last dumars time as a GM is balanced none the less. He had like 6 or 7 great years as GM as his teams performed awesome over a long period of time and then he had 5 bad years when those players left. That's no different than pat Riley who only became a success again cause of tampering with players to create a big 3. Had that not happened Riley would likely be in the same boat as dumars.

Edited May 9, 2017 by JTB

[Thomas]

14 hours ago, Watchman said:

Immediately pursue Josh Smith and Darko Millicic with max contracts.

Really Darko humor there guy but do understand it. Think he signed Josh for 54 million total for some misguided reason to boot. That worked out, right? 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

 

I think dumars basketball intelligence is being questioned however that isn't is a real issue with him. Most GMs go through an episode of bad timing at some point if they are able to keep their jobs long enough. 

Dumars understands the era he's in, he's not unaware. Bringing up that he built a slow paced defense to win a championship in 2004 shouldn't be a knock on his resume.

ive lighten up on dumars and while he's absolutely made some horrible decisions Im just as terrified to see what unproven potential GMs like weaver may end up doing in office!...at least with dumars we can be assured that we know he knows where he screwed up last time , where as the new guys how can you really hold their feet to fire being a first time GM?

last dumars time as a GM is balanced none the less. He had like 6 or 7 great years as GM as his teams performed awesome over a long period of time and then he had 5 bad years when those players left. That's no different than pat Riley who only became a success again cause of tampering with players to create a big 3. Had that not happened Riley would likely be in the same boat as dumars.

Huh?  We don't know if Dumars has learned anything because he's been unhireable since then.

My issue is I'd rather not go the retread route especially when it's one who's success is tied to 1 team and 1 roster and who failed spectacularly outside that 1 team and 1 roster.  That's why I don't consider his failure simply a blip on the radar.  Once that team was gone, he had no idea what to do.  Not only did he make mistakes, he compounded his mistakes with bad decision after bad decision.

Pat Riley is overrated IMHO but he basically built winning teams in multiple different styles across multiple eras.  Dumars is nowhere near that.

[Thomas]

Riley went to the championship series with three different teams as a coach and being involved in management. New York didn't win the one they were in but not sure who if anyone else could have gotten that team there in the first place with players like Mason and Starks being such major players for them. Not a good comparison. 

[Jody23]

The new GM needs to be someone who has an understanding of and an appreciation for the type of system Bud runs and the kinds of players who best fit it.  Joe Dumars doesn't appear to be that guy.

[macdaddy]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

Dumars understands the era he's in, he's not unaware. Bringing up that he built a slow paced defense to win a championship in 2004 shouldn't be a knock on his resume.

The knock is that in an eternity as a gm he has nothing else to hang his hat on other than that one year.   And there is actually no evidence that he adapted to the new nba.   He was still building a team with Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond as the cornerstones.   Then went and signed Josh Smith.   Smith/Monroe/Drummond frontcourt while the rest of the league was stretching the court to great success.   That's the last thing on his GM resume.   

[Thomas]

27 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

He was still building a team with Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond as the cornerstones.   Then went and signed Josh Smith.   Smith/Monroe/Drummond frontcourt while the rest of the league was stretching the court to great success.   That's the last thing on his GM resume.   

Pretty scary stuff with that actually being his recent history.  How does he sell that?