Do you believe the Hawks would do the same offer for Jimmy Butler?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Oh, we're cutting off my caveats and qualifiers to that statement?

Gordan Shot 40% from the field in that system and Anderson shot 41.8 and neither offered anything else.   So you consider those all star numbers?  Really???  No wonder we aren't speaking the same language.  Lets just agree that we see basketball differently.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, Dejay said:

Since when have the Hawks brought in a guy in his prime coming off a 24/6 season and two previous years of hanging up 20/5 while shooting a respectable percentage with next to nothing surrounding him other than a broken down Derrick Rose, an old Pau Gasol, and an old Dwyane Wade? Joe Johnson didn't hang up those kind of numbers before the Hawks gave him a max deal and you have to back that far just to find the last guy they had to average 20 a game.

We're not talking about them selling out the farm to bring in TMac like they did when Sund was running the show. We're talking about a player other teams have to actually craft a gameplan for and double team when he gets to his favorite spots on the floor. That's a far cry from what we have on the perimeter right now...

I'm not on board!  I live in Chicago and Butler has a lot of miles on those legs and isn't as good as y'all making him out to be.  Heck, he is only an average 3 point shooter.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Gordan Shot 40% from the field in that system and Anderson shot 41.8 and neither offered anything else.   So you consider those all star numbers?  Really???  No wonder we aren't speaking the same language.  Lets just agree that we see basketball differently.

You don't think they fit that system perfectly?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

They were asking for Prince, Hardaway and 3 1st.  You can make up your own trade if you want but the article mentioned those 3 elements

I don't know that to be true at all. The rumors indicated a 'pick centric trade' Asked if 3 firsts, Stein responded 4. The recent story indicated it was 4 picks. I vaguely remember THjr being mentioned in the Indy trade.

References to THJr, Prince and Bembry was by the writer of the article 

"Would the Hawks be better off trading three (or more) first round picks in a package along with other assets likeTaurean Prince, Tim Hardaway Jr. and DeAndre Bembry if it meant receiving Jimmy Butler or Paul George in return? Probably, but it remains up for debate just how serious these talks were. For now, we can only dream."

[Bankingitbig]

14 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Talk about a treadmill team.  How in hell would you build your team without draft picks?

This was your reply to the Bembry, Baze, 2017 1st (19th), 2018 Minny pick (1-14 protected), and Cavs 2019 pick (1-10) protected for Butler trade... Like I said, that trade doesn't handicap the future at all as you would still have the 2017 #31 pick and our own 2018 and 2019 first round picks. Even if it was THJ, Prince and 3sts, I don't think your future is completely handicapped like how BKN is right now, but I would definitely not want to include Prince that deal.

[macdaddy]

15 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not on board!  I live in Chicago and Butler has a lot of miles on those legs and isn't as good as y'all making him out to be.  Heck, he is only an average 3 point shooter.

A lot of miles?  He's 27 years old and has been in the league 6 years.   Look who's competing in the finals.  Lebron, Durant, Curry, Thompson, Love.  They all have as much or more.   

I get that you don't think he's worth it but considering we played the season with probably the worst wing combo in the whole league I just don't see how anyone would claim Butler isn't a huge upgrade and would make us significantly better.   

[Guard]

49 minutes ago, Dejay said:

I'd be in lockstep with you if we weren't talking about the Hawks. The Spurs had HOFers handed to them on a silver platter in Robinson and Duncan, so it's a much easier sell to the fans to get behind them in tough times; tough times for the Spurs being defined as after getting knocked out of the second round after a 57-win season. Unlike the Hawks, they get the benefit of the doubt because they actually have had GMs there who knew what they were doing when the names of Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Leandro Barbosa, et al were available. The Hawks don't have nearly as many points in their beacon score to make anyone believe that they can pull off such a feat. And until proven otherwise, well...

I'm one of the most pessimistic posters on this board and I think at some point there will be a GM that knows what he's doing in the draft in Atlanta. He might be the next GM this team hires in a week or two. Point is, it isn't smart to throw away the few assets this team has to form a team that isn't going to sniff  a Finals with Cleveland still being Cleveland. They've got about two years left before James is done. 

You might as well keep those picks and hope the new GM can work some magic in the draft. Also hope the young guys like Prince and Bembry can improve.  Unless Lebron is coming here, there isn't a player available the makes this team a legit contender on the level of GS and Cleveland. Don't throw away assets to a team that would be lucky to take Cleveland 7 games. 

[Peoriabird]

28 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You don't think they fit that system perfectly?

I was responding to the statement made claiming they were all stars in that system.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

I was responding to the statement made claiming they were all stars in that system.

The portion where I said "in that system" was the qualifier.  It's all relative.

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

A lot of miles?  He's 27 years old and has been in the league 6 years.   Look who's competing in the finals.  Lebron, Durant, Curry, Thompson, Love.  They all have as much or more.   

I get that you don't think he's worth it but considering we played the season with probably the worst wing combo in the whole league I just don't see how anyone would claim Butler isn't a huge upgrade and would make us significantly better.   

I unlike you believe that Hardaway and Prince have a very bright future.

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

The portion where I said "in that system" was the qualifier.  It's all relative.

I post their numbers in that system and they aren't all star number sorry.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

A lot of miles?  He's 27 years old and has been in the league 6 years.   Look who's competing in the finals.  Lebron, Durant, Curry, Thompson, Love.  They all have as much or more.   

I get that you don't think he's worth it but considering we played the season with probably the worst wing combo in the whole league I just don't see how anyone would claim Butler isn't a huge upgrade and would make us significantly better.   

He has played a lot of minutes from day one...Over 40 minutes per game for his career.  plus he isn't a number #1

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I unlike you believe that Hardaway and Prince have a very bright future.

I post their numbers in that system and they aren't all star number sorry.

I think we're setting the record for an argument between 2 dudes that actually kinda agree (on the thread topic).

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I unlike you believe that Hardaway and Prince have a very bright future.

I do believe Prince has a bright future.  Hardaway I want to believe in but i mean Tim is just 2 years younger that Butler.   Butler is better at every aspect of the game and has been at that level for 3 or 4 years.   

But are we going to sit on our hands and pray that one day Hardaway and prince become as good as Butler.   That's treadmilling. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I do believe Prince has a bright future.  Hardaway I want to believe in but i mean Tim is just 2 years younger that Butler.   Butler is better at every aspect of the game and has been at that level for 3 or 4 years.   

But are we going to sit on our hands and pray that one day Hardaway and prince become as good as Butler.   That's treadmilling. 

Nope..we are going to sit on our hand and hope Hardaway and Prince get better and add those 4 1st round picks to the team. Big difference

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I do believe Prince has a bright future.  Hardaway I want to believe in but i mean Tim is just 2 years younger that Butler.   Butler is better at every aspect of the game and has been at that level for 3 or 4 years.   

But are we going to sit on our hands and pray that one day Hardaway and prince become as good as Butler.   That's treadmilling. 

Daddy Mac you would love my 2016 squawk dynasty team...first two guys on my roster were Draymond and Jimmy...that's 50 wins alone..:-|

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Nope..we are going to sit on our hand and hope Hardaway and Prince get better and add those 4 1st round picks to the team. Big difference

I hope I'm still around when this master plan comes to fruition.    I guess i'll add that if we tell Sap this is the plan I have no idea why he'd sign up for it.   

[Dejay]

27 minutes ago, Guard said:

I'm one of the most pessimistic posters on this board and I think at some point there will be a GM that knows what he's doing in the draft in Atlanta...

And that's where the two of us hit the fork in the road. I DO NOT share this sentiment AT ALL and have the posts and many a witness here who will back my claims. If you're talking about the Falcons and Braves, I'm with you; I've seen their draft picks become REAL players. But this team? Nope. I've seen way too many guys strut into the ivory towers claiming to have all of the answers in late-June, only to come back with jabronies who couldn't win you a rec league game. The list of HOFers, All-Stars, and very good players this franchise has passed up in the name of, well, I'll skip the expletives to keep from my account getting suspended, can make a polar bear throw up. 

So nope, I'll take my chances on guys who I've already seen play NBA basketball and well. I'm not saying to jettison the draft forever and ever. But if you're talking about rebuilding with picks in the teens and 20s, nah...

Edited May 22, 2017 by Dejay

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@thecampster  IIRC, Splitter was still on the team and THjr was reported as the 'young' player Indy would want.

Sorry, but Splitter + Hardaway = 10.5 million. Not enough salary to trade for Paul George. They were still 2.6 million (ish) apart. 

[thecampster]

59 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not on board!  I live in Chicago and Butler has a lot of miles on those legs and isn't as good as y'all making him out to be.  Heck, he is only an average 3 point shooter.

I might be the biggest Taurean Prince fan on this board, but you trade for sure things when can. If offered Butler for Baze/Prince the the two future 1sts and 19, you couldn't find me a pen fast enough.  Butler is the kind of player that people watch and say, man I wish I had me one of those. Butler is the kind of player other free agents want to play with. Butler is the kind of player you surround with 3 point shooters....not demand he be one.  Every championship team...each and every 1 has a guy who you look at and say...I need a bucket and he goes and gets you one. There are less than 15 of those guys in the league and Butler is one. Some teams have 2. You put Butler on this team and Paul Millsap just got infinitely better.  You don't have to double team Dennis, You don't have to double Paul or Dwight but a clear out for Butler demands help no matter who is guarding him. Butler is the kind of player that other teams scheme around.  With the Hawks now, you pick your poison. Add Butler and there is no choice, you start by stopping him.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Sorry, but Splitter + Hardaway = 10.5 million. Not enough salary to trade for Paul George. They were still 2.6 million (ish) apart. 

I know, just saying Bazemore didn't have to be included. Most likely Mike Scott as well.