Its Official...Travis Schlenk is the New Hawks GM

[NBASupes]

The fact that Dennis is our PG kills any Monk dreams. Maybe with a different PG guys. I think he would work well in Minny. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Marvin Bagley

Relation to John?

[thecampster]

11 hours ago, Lurker said:

If you can't keep Millsap, you need to move Dennis and fire up the super tank rebuild.

WTF would you trade a 23 year old PG in a rebuild?

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Watch and see. He will have an extremely strong market. Probably more teams than all of our free agents combined outside of Sap of course. 

Thabo has a limited but decent market. Playoff teams who need a legit backup wing. 

Ersan is too much for most teams who need him as a backup big and I think Atlanta will keep him. 

Tim will outprice the market which will limit his suitors. 

Calderon, Kelly, and Hump have a very limited pool of teams. Hump will likely resign. 

 

There are approximately 12 teams that can afford Tim at 14-15 per. About 8 of them could really use a scoring 2 guard.  And sorry but Moose is a max $5 mil/per player right now.  You really need to understand the mechanics of the cap here.  There are about 12 teams right now with between $10 and $30 million in cap room. Philly being the exception has more room than the 15 worst teams cap wise combined. There are approximately 20 tier 1 and 2 free agents out there right now. About 1/2 of those will resign with their own teams.  In the list of valued free agents, Moose comes in at about 50th.  He is a 4/5 hybrid...too stiff to play stretch 4 as a starter, too weak to play 5 and bang.  He's a backup big and backup bigs in this market get $4-5 million. 

Let me explain it this way.  The NBA is richest/poorest in the following order.

PF - Most talent

PG - 2nd most talent

C - 3rd most

SG - 4th most

SF - 5th most

What I mean by this is that their are 20 starting, star quality PF's in the league who are a pickem as starters. They get boards, points and even shoot 3's.  Very few superstars, but tons of starter quality talent.  There are also a ton of starter quality point guardss in the league. A few are top tier but the next tier is good and there are many of them.  There are 10-15 solid starting centers in the NBA. Almost every team has a guy who is at the least a F/C starting at center and few teams have crap there. Maybe 10 SG's and 7-10 SF's. There are some really bad SF's starting in the NBA right now.  Thabo started for 50 games, just for defense. 

Moose is a F/C type. No team would want him as a starting 4 and very few could consider him as a starting 5. You thinking he's getting 10 million + is starter money.  Moose is not a starter. He is an energy, 15 minute backup max. Or he adds 30 lbs of muscle and becomes a goon....those are his options.

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Or he adds 30 lbs of muscle and becomes a goon....those are his options.

Yes. Lololol.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

There are approximately 12 teams that can afford Tim at 14-15 per. About 8 of them could really use a scoring 2 guard.  And sorry but Moose is a max $5 mil/per player right now.  You really need to understand the mechanics of the cap here.  There are about 12 teams right now with between $10 and $30 million in cap room. Philly being the exception has more room than the 15 worst teams cap wise combined. There are approximately 20 tier 1 and 2 free agents out there right now. About 1/2 of those will resign with their own teams.  In the list of valued free agents, Moose comes in at about 50th.  He is a 4/5 hybrid...too stiff to play stretch 4 as a starter, too weak to play 5 and bang.  He's a backup big and backup bigs in this market get $4-5 million. 

Let me explain it this way.  The NBA is richest/poorest in the following order.

PF - Most talent

PG - 2nd most talent

C - 3rd most

SG - 4th most

SF - 5th most

What I mean by this is that their are 20 starting, star quality PF's in the league who are a pickem as starters. They get boards, points and even shoot 3's.  Very few superstars, but tons of starter quality talent.  There are also a ton of starter quality point guardss in the league. A few are top tier but the next tier is good and there are many of them.  There are 10-15 solid starting centers in the NBA. Almost every team has a guy who is at the least a F/C starting at center and few teams have crap there. Maybe 10 SG's and 7-10 SF's. There are some really bad SF's starting in the NBA right now.  Thabo started for 50 games, just for defense. 

Moose is a F/C type. No team would want him as a starting 4 and very few could consider him as a starting 5. You thinking he's getting 10 million + is starter money.  Moose is not a starter. He is an energy, 15 minute backup max. Or he adds 30 lbs of muscle and becomes a goon....those are his options.

 

If Tim get a hugs offer which I seriously doubt as no team would see him as a legit starter, then he isn't getting matched. It's just that simple. I don't know why you keep arguing to argue 

[AUhawksfan]

Now for the real important question:  What's with us hiring GMs with the bald head look?

Sund, Ferry, now Schlenk?

[KB21]

Monk is a volume scorer that does very little else.  He's an extremely poor defender at this point and would be a terrible fit on a Budenholzer coached team.  He's one of the many overhyped prospects in this draft.  

I'd much rather have Kostja Mushidi at the 31st pick.  Much better body.  Better defensive potential.  Better overall shooter.

[thecampster]

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If Tim get a hugs offer which I seriously doubt as no team would see him as a legit starter, then he isn't getting matched. It's just that simple. I don't know why you keep arguing to argue 

I'm not arguing to argue...not even close.  There are a myriad of reasons why the Hawks would prefer Timmy over Baze. If the Hawks can find a buyer for Baze without just trading for a 2nd, then they will move him and give Tim similar money. Tim is younger (almost 3 full years), Tim has 1 less year in the NBA (meaning cheaper contracts going forward).  Tim is taller/longer/with better all around offense/ball handling. Tim's 82games.com metrics show he is a much better defender than he gets credit for (for example Baze's Opponent PER at SG/SF 15.4/14.9, Hardaway's 11.6/14.2).  THj is just better at every facet of the game and his simple rating shows it (+8.8 over Baze). 

 

A max salary for Hardaway would be 22 million. He isn't coming anywhere close to that. But what you and seemingly everyone else is forgetting is that Tim is a really young player. He was held to a ridiculously high standard these playoffs against arguably a top 3 SG in the league in Beal.  In a league where good shooting guards are hard to come by and 2 way shooting guards are almost non-existent, Hardaway projects to be a top 10 shooting guard in the next few years. $14 million is a real possibility and I'd stick my neck out and say $12 million is a given.

[AHF]

When did expecting someone to give you close to regular season performance in the playoffs become ridiculous?  Tim is not on track to being a top 10 starter in any way shape or form.  He is a plus reserve, minus starter today.  Upside is an average starter (ie #15-20 in the league).  Downside is never being starter worthy due to passable at his peak defense and inconsistent offense.

[NBASupes]

40 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'm not arguing to argue...not even close.  There are a myriad of reasons why the Hawks would prefer Timmy over Baze. If the Hawks can find a buyer for Baze without just trading for a 2nd, then they will move him and give Tim similar money. Tim is younger (almost 3 full years), Tim has 1 less year in the NBA (meaning cheaper contracts going forward).  Tim is taller/longer/with better all around offense/ball handling. Tim's 82games.com metrics show he is a much better defender than he gets credit for (for example Baze's Opponent PER at SG/SF 15.4/14.9, Hardaway's 11.6/14.2).  THj is just better at every facet of the game and his simple rating shows it (+8.8 over Baze). 

 

A max salary for Hardaway would be 22 million. He isn't coming anywhere close to that. But what you and seemingly everyone else is forgetting is that Tim is a really young player. He was held to a ridiculously high standard these playoffs against arguably a top 3 SG in the league in Beal.  In a league where good shooting guards are hard to come by and 2 way shooting guards are almost non-existent, Hardaway projects to be a top 10 shooting guard in the next few years. $14 million is a real possibility and I'd stick my neck out and say $12 million is a given.

You are arguing to argue. 

Bazemore's value comes from his two way ability, athleticism and the game tape on defensive responsibility. Things that coaches see and fans generally don't see. 

Where is Tim's value. Scoring and streaky scoring at that. Those players just do not have that type of value in today's NBA. They are hard to fit into rosters. Coaches, scouts and GMs just don't value them as much as fans do. They tend to end up as 6th man. 

The biggest issue with framing anything with any of our guards is they are all much better off of the bench then as starters. Bazemore had the highest +/- in the playoffs and was our biggest impact player. Tim was the worst but in the season, it was flipped.

That's more of an indictment of our starting personnel and role more than the actual player itself.

[KB21]

Wait a second!

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You are arguing to argue. 

Bazemore's value comes from his two way ability, athleticism and the game tape on defensive responsibility. Things that coaches see and fans generally don't see. 

Where is Tim's value. Scoring and streaky scoring at that. Those players just do not have that type of value in today's NBA. They are hard to fit into rosters. Coaches, scouts and GMs just don't value them as much as fans do. They tend to end up as 6th man. 

The biggest issue with framing anything with any of our guards is they are all much better off of the bench then as starters. Bazemore had the highest +/- in the playoffs and was our biggest impact player. Tim was the worst but in the season, it was flipped.

That's more of an indictment of our starting personnel and role more than the actual player itself.

In fairness, I don't think Bazemore is any more than Tim and I actually prefer to bet on Tim if I am going to put my money down on one or the other going forward.  Baze is currently a plus reserve and minus starter.  He can't shoot consistently, his defense is decent but overrated as it is frequently more effort than result, and he can't handle the ball which increases pressure on the rest of the team.  He gives you enough on D to be a valuable contributor when he is doing something positive on offense but he is a negative value asset on  his current contract.  He will never be an average starter at SG and will never be a top 30 SF (given that he struggles more on D at that position).

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

In fairness, I don't think Bazemore is any more than Tim and I actually prefer to bet on Tim if I am going to put my money down on one or the other going forward.  Baze is currently a plus reserve and minus starter.  He can't shoot consistently, his defense is decent but overrated as it is frequently more effort than result, and he can't handle the ball which increases pressure on the rest of the team.  He gives you enough on D to be a valuable contributor when he is doing something positive on offense but he is a negative value asset on  his current contract.  He will never be an average starter at SG and will never be a top 30 SF (given that he struggles more on D at that position).

His value on defense is his responsibility, not his defensive abilities. He can do a lot off the ball and make great consistent reads on D. His issue is he's not a good man defender and he over defends time and time again. Baze is a generally a .350 pt shooter. That's value for a shooter who can defend. He can't handle the rock when slashing and it's annoying when he tries to take guys off the dribble. I think otherwise. I've always stated, solid talent, an average player who could start in certain situations. I think OKC, HOU, NO, LAC and places where they have a  dominant star ball-handler would be a good fit for him. Atlanta never was a good fit for him. 

To say he will never be an average starter at SG is blasphemy. All of his best lineups in the last three years has been with bigs who can stretch the floor on O and hedge on D. He's like most average NBA players, heavily personnel depended. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

To say he will never be an average starter at SG is blasphemy. All of his best lineups in the last three years has been with bigs who can stretch the floor on O and hedge on D. He's like most average NBA players, heavily personnel depended. 

He wasn't close to an average starter in the best year of his career and I don't see a lot of upside from that season.  I agree he is context dependent because he is a limited player that isn't that good.  If you find the right size, limited role for him then the match makes that work better but still doesn't make him near the #15 SG in the league.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

He wasn't close to an average starter in the best year of his career and I don't see a lot of upside from that season.  I agree he is context dependent because he is a limited player that isn't that good.  If you find the right size, limited role for him then the match makes that work better but still doesn't make him near the #15 SG in the league.

What is your idea of an average starter for SG? Give me that player.
 

[GameTime]

When is the press conference?

[hazer]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Wait a second!

 

Wasn't Schlenk the singer for Smashing Pumpkins?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, AUhawksfan said:

Now for the real important question:  What's with us hiring GMs with the bald head look?

Sund, Ferry, now Schlenk?

They are the MJ's of the GM world..

Just now, hazer said:

Wasn't Schlenk the singer for Smashing Pumpkins?

Wowwwww he totally looks like it..what the..

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

What is your idea of an average starter for SG? Give me that player.
 

The 15th best player at his position.  So for last year, Bazemore played both SG and SF and his comparison point would be someone like: Harrison Barnes, Jae Crowder, Wilson Chandler, Khris Middleton, Malcom Brogdon, and JJ Redick.  Middle of the pack producers last season among the top 31 at their position on a per minute or total production basis.  By varying metrics, those guys are all the #15-16 at the position last season while by the same metrics Bazemore ranked much, much lower (see below).

Bazemore's career after 5 seasons is:  11.7 PER, .059 WS/48, 1.6 WS/season, -1.1 BPM, 0.3 VORP/season.  

Super middling numbers and last season was right on par:

11.5 PER, 0.53 WS/48, 2.1 WS, -.8 BPM, 0.6 VORP

Among guards and wings (a broader category than his true comparitors) playing at least 700 minutes, he ranked:

119th in win shares per 48

99th in win shares

69th in Value Over Replacement Player

75th in Box Score Plus Minus

 

Among his true wing comparitors (SGs and SFs and excluding PGs), he ranked no better:

87th in PER

76th in Estimated Wins Added

79th in Value Added

 

He is not close to an average starter which means the 15th or 16th best guy at his position in the entire league.