Its Official...Travis Schlenk is the New Hawks GM

[KB21]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LeBron, Kobe and Dirk came in the NBA before 20. This is a different league than in 1993. 

Even then, all of the upperclassmen studs who came out of college was drafted in the top 8. Wade wasn't drafted at 15. You gotta have high quality picks. It's damn near mandatory even if your philosophy is drafting upperclassmen like Curry or Wade.

 

I personally rather upperclassmen or at least two and done over college FR for several reasons but I would lying if I said I would not take one who was talented. I really do not like taking college seniors outside of the lottery. Most of them aren't that good and never become more than average. I rather take them in the 2nd round. 

Those guys are exceptions.  For every LeBron, Kobe, and Dirk, there is a Korleon Young, James Lang, Ousmane Cisse, and Leon Smith.  Travis Outlaw, Jonathan Bender, Sebastian Telfair....etc

[Lurker]

There is a difference in this:

1. Taking everyone that "can play" just because they "can play".
2. Taking high upside talent that has shown that they can play already.

I called it last year with UK for example with Jamal Murray and will again...De'Aaron Fox is going to be good. It could take a while like John Wall, but he is going to be a very good NBA player.

Malik Monk has a high floor of being Jamal Crawford off of the bench.

Bam Adebayo is the one most likely to bust, but it could be that his best abilities was hidden. The youngster guards are going to be major factors in the NBA...

Just an example, and those are who I've seen the most.

[KB21]

What is your definition of having upside?  Because the two examples you listed have a very limited upside to me because they are lacking in skills.  Malik Monk is a high volume shooter that is highly overrated because he is long an athletic, and De'Aaron Fox can't shoot a lick.

[Lurker]

Because of Fox's injuries and illness over the year, he wasn't showing his actual upside until late in the year and the postseason. His shot isn't unfixable.

Again, guys like Monk are going to stick around in the NBA for a while just due to their shot.

[Lurker]

De'Aaron Fox is going to be a better version of Dennis Schröder within 4 years, if not quicker.

[AHF]

I don't see NBA and NFL as being comparable.  Lots of NFL superstars who went either undrafted or in the later rounds.  MVPs like Tom Brady, Terrell Davis, Kurt Warner, etc.  The list of NBA MVPs reads like a string of lottery pick hits.

The last NBA MVP who wasn't taken #1-15 was drafted in 1964 and is the only one in NBA history.

[Peoriabird]

Some minor corrections

Kobe was technically drafted by the Hornets and traded to the Lakers

LeBron was signed as a free agent by Cleveland before they won a championship

Leonard was also a result of a trade...Spurs had the best record in the league the year before.

Parker was actually drafted by us with the 23rd pick

Billups bounced around the league and won late in his career

Dirk also won really late in his career.

And the other thing you noticed is your list contains fewer than 10 guys over a 27 year period which should tell you something

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, High5 said:

I'm with you on the basketball stuff (this time), but Brady, Rodgers*, Wilson, and Brees have all won championships recently. That's not a great argument. 

*my bad, thought Rodgers was a 2nd round pick. Still, he was a late first. 

 

Rodgers was a 1st rounder. 

Kobe, Leonard, Giannis, Malone, Stockton = Brees

Wilson isn't an elite QB but = Tony Parker

Brady was a mistake by scouts but Isaiah Thomas would be the only one who makes sense. 

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't see NBA and NFL as being comparable.  Lots of NFL superstars who went either undrafted or in the later rounds.  MVPs like Tom Brady, Terrell Davis, Kurt Warner, etc.  The list of NBA MVPs reads like a string of lottery pick hits.

The last NBA MVP who wasn't taken #1-15 was drafted in 1964 and is the only one in NBA history.

True. 

[Lurker]

And before people go off on me and say I get "blinded by what announcers say", I don't. I make my own personal judgments on players. I don't watch a lot of college basketball, but I was very impressed with De'Aaron Fox...when healthy in the games that I did. I think Monk is a little overrated, but at the very minimum, he's key bench caliber in the NBA for 5-10 years, if not more.

Just to throw it in there...I was also very impressed with Zach Collins.

I think there are many questions about Lonzo Ball's ability to actually get his own offense (there are none with his passing). If Josh Jackson's foolish self doesn't get thrown in jail, he has the highest ceiling of them all. Jayson Tatum may have some defensive issues, but his game is so smooth, he'll translate on offense.

Etc. etc.

Notice how I haven't talked about all of them. I think the top 10 of the class is very good, but there's bust potential with some of them. Jonathan Isaac comes to mind, and Dennis Smith Jr wouldn't fit your ****intangibles****. I mentioned Ball, but it's very possible he's just MCW with an annoying father to deal with on top of that.

[High5]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

And the other thing you noticed is your list contains fewer than 10 guys over a 27 year period which should tell you something

Only 10 franchises have won a championship in the last 30+ years. And by my count only Kobe's Lakers and 2004 Pistons did so without drafting a Hall of Famer in the lottery. We aren't the Lakers and those Pistons were an anomaly. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

Ilyasovavichkov

3 points and a like for that....

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, High5 said:

Only 10 franchises have won a championship in the last 30+ years. And by my count only Kobe's Lakers and 2004 Pistons did so without drafting a Hall of Famer in the lottery. We aren't the Lakers and those Pistons were an anomaly. 

The point is that it's the same guys so the chances of getting that guy is very slim. They call it the lottery for a reason.

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Some minor corrections

Kobe was technically drafted by the Hornets and traded to the Lakers

LeBron was signed as a free agent by Cleveland before they won a championship

Leonard was also a result of a trade...Spurs had the best record in the league the year before.

Parker was actually drafted by us with the 23rd pick

Billups bounced around the league and won late in his career

Dirk also won really late in his career.

And the other thing you noticed is your list contains fewer than 10 guys over a 27 year period which should tell you something

Trading for a draft pick on draft day is no different than trading for a pick a day prior to the draft.  The Lakers worked out a trade with the Hornets, directed them to take Kobe, and traded for him.  He never played a game for the Hornets.  That is entirely different than trading for a player another team drafted.

You have to be #$#*ing me if you think we didn't draft Prince last year.  Are we really going to pretend that the Jazz drafted him and we didn't acquire a draft pick to select him?

Those are distinctions without a difference.

[High5]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

The point is that it's the s asme guys so the chances of getting that guy is very slim. They call it the lottery for a reason.

So it's better to not have a shot at all and keep trying to build a contender with spare parts? That defies basically the entire history of the league. 

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

Trading for a draft pick on draft day is no different than trading for a pick a day prior to the draft.  The Lakers worked out a trade with the Hornets, directed them to take Kobe, and traded for him.  He never played a game for the Hornets.  That is entirely different than trading for a player another team drafted.

You have to be #$#*ing me if you think we didn't draft Prince last year.  Are we really going to pretend that the Jazz drafted him and we didn't acquire a draft pick to select him?

Those are distinctions without a difference.

This is more in response to the pro-tankers than you.  We just acquired someone with the 12th pick but that largely gets ignored.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Trading for a draft pick on draft day is no different than trading for a pick a day prior to the draft.  The Lakers worked out a trade with the Hornets, directed them to take Kobe, and traded for him.  He never played a game for the Hornets.  That is entirely different than trading for a player another team drafted.

You have to be #$#*ing me if you think we didn't draft Prince last year.  Are we really going to pretend that the Jazz drafted him and we didn't acquire a draft pick to select him?

Those are distinctions without a difference.

Of course we selected Prince. If Utah was actually selecting in that spot they would have prolly picked Henry Ellenson for us.

 

No doubt Prince was a handpicked BUD guy!

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Of course we selected Prince. If Utah was actually selecting in that spot they would have prolly picked Henry Ellenson for us.

 

No doubt Prince was a handpicked BUD guy!

It was the same for Dirk, Kobe, Leonard, etc.

 

It doesn't matter how you get the picks.  LA pulled off a sweet trade by dangling Don Ford that ended up with them drafting #1 overall and taking future NBA Finals MVP James Worthy.  That scenario has been done a ton of times by good teams (think the Pistons with the option to draft Carmelo, Wade or Bosh) and by crappy teams (think Chicago trading for the #5 to select Scottie Pippen).  Who would have an objection to us pulling off that kind of trade and getting in position without full blown tanking?  

 

The point is that you have to get into the lottery and hit that star pick as the foundation for your build or you are fighting a losing battle against the odds hoping to be the next Billups era Pistons or 1978 Sonics (both one-time champs that defied the odds and won without drafting their MVP or Finals MVP player(s)).

[sturt]

What would explain why no press conference announcement? I mean, I can even understand not having it yet, but why not go ahead and announce a date/time? Or, did I miss that?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, sturt said:

What would explain why no press conference announcement? I mean, I can even understand not having it yet, but why not go ahead and announce a date/time? Or, did I miss that?

Thought I heard it would be next week.

[Bankingitbig]

24 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thought I heard it would be next week.

Yea I think it's supposed to be Friday, June 2nd. I think technically he doesn't start with the Hawks organization until June 1st, but I think that is more just a formality as he is likely already hard at work.