Travis Schlenk: "The goal is to find another Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green"

[Peoriabird]

I wonder if Lurker's mind was on full display in this thread or was she just messing with us the entire time while laughing as she typed each frustrating counter argument. I truly hope it was the latter.

[KB21]

Sturt, 

If you look at the last 7 drafts and rated the top 10 in each draft by their VORP, that's 70 total players.  Of those 70 that rated in the top 10, 47 were drafted after the 10th pick.

The dynamic of the draft has changed recently with a significant influx of players who are nowhere near ready to contribute.  

[GameTime]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html

 

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I wonder if Lurker's mind was on full display in this thread or was she just messing with us the entire time while laughing as she typed each frustrating counter argument. I truly hope it was the latter.

Glad somebody else said what I've been thinking this whole time. No one's that obtuse, this just HAS to be the most clever troll job I've ever seen. Amirite? Amirite???

[hazer]

Stop feeding it, y'all...

[Lurker]

THJ is done growing as a player. He has no versatility, so he is done. What he was from January is who he is, at best. Period.

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, hazer said:

Stop feeding it, y'all...

I truly, dearly, am not trolling. This is what I believe, and yes I am usually very pessimistic. THJ is done growing as a player, period.

[JTB]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

It is very hard to have a conversation when statements are made that purportedly support a certain conclusion.  The statements are disproven then a new statement equally unsourced and disconnected from the conclusion is thrown out as if definitive.  When this is repeated like 5 times on the same topic in the same thread, it just boggles the mind.

 

You are now arguing that no SG has ever had a rough season early in their career and developed into a materially better player.  You have to know this is just as completely unsupported as all the other claims that have already been disproven.  I'm not wasting my time doing it again here because you'll just move the bar again and launch into another definitive statement that is way over broad.  

You have to know there have been SGs drafted outside of the lottery who struggled early in their careers and developed into better players.  Just stop making these broad generalizations and simply say that you don't believer in THJr and be done with it and stop pretending there is some objective data that establishes that a SG drafted outside the lottery who wasnt a possible lottery pick according to a random draft projection can never improve after their fourth year.  

There have been players who hit their ceiling in the past at this stage in their career.  It could happen with THJr and if you just say it is your opinion you can be done with it.  Pretending you see some data driven pattern here when you have no data just invites circular frustration. 

Boom! Thank you & hopefully that ends this whole THJ talk.

Everyone has an opinion and are entitled to how they feel, like it should be on the squawk.

@Diesel hates Marvin williams and referred to him as duck butt for years if I recall that right

@NBASupes said al Horford is better than Karl Malone and once had high praise for OJ Mayo maybe still does.

@JayBirdHawk hates musucala (probably spelled his name wrong but who cares) and believes he's just awful and very weak physically 

@Lurker hates THJ & believes he's done growing

I personally hated josh bone head smith but thought he could have still been a star level player If he played with a higher bbiq and also thought Teague could have been all star player for consecutive years if he wasn't such a p*ssy.

 

.....ALL of us have strong opinions about specific players but none of our opinions are facts cause none of us know what's going to happen in the future.

[Lurker]

Let me make it extremely clear, its Dwight Howard that I hate.

I don't *hate* THJ, I just think he's completely done growing due to a limited skillset. I am 99.9% sure that he is a bad starter, plus backup, and not because of the playoff series, but that was part of the reason I am #TotallyOut on THJ starting.

[Lurker]

I may seem harsh, and I am, but the only guy that I truly, for real deeply hate is Dwight Howard. I hate no one else on the team.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Lurker said:

There's a pattern. All of them didn't have an average and stinky year to start their careers.

Some people just believe whatever they want to believe...which is completely fine but somewhat annoying. @hazer ur obviously right in feeding into it and I rarely do but this needed to be exposed. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

It is very hard to have a conversation when statements are made that purportedly support a certain conclusion.  The statements are disproven then a new statement equally unsourced and disconnected from the conclusion is thrown out as if definitive.  When this is repeated like 5 times on the same topic in the same thread, it just boggles the mind.

 

You are now arguing that no SG has ever had a rough season early in their career and developed into a materially better player.  You have to know this is just as completely unsupported as all the other claims that have already been disproven.  I'm not wasting my time doing it again here because you'll just move the bar again and launch into another definitive statement that is way over broad.  

You have to know there have been SGs drafted outside of the lottery who struggled early in their careers and developed into better players.  Just stop making these broad generalizations and simply say that you don't believer in THJr and be done with it and stop pretending there is some objective data that establishes that a SG drafted outside the lottery who wasnt a possible lottery pick according to a random draft projection can never improve after their fourth year.  

There have been players who hit their ceiling in the past at this stage in their career.  It could happen with THJr and if you just say it is your opinion you can be done with it.  Pretending you see some data driven pattern here when you have no data just invites circular frustration. 

I've never blocked anybody...I haven't brought myself to do it yet but now I'm not sure anymore.

[Thomas]

18 hours ago, kg01 said:

Gotta love the offseason ....

Not so much.

[Thomas]

9 hours ago, hazer said:

Glad somebody else said what I've been thinking this whole time. No one's that obtuse, this just HAS to be the most clever troll job I've ever seen. Amirite? Amirite???

Uh, a nice thought but am afraid not.

[Thomas]

7 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

Some people just believe whatever they want to believe...which is completely fine but somewhat annoying. @hazer ur obviously right in feeding into it and I rarely do but this needed to be exposed. 

With all that consistent improvement and the poor guy ends up a marionette for the "Phil" Jackson. Life is not always fair.

[Wretch]

Quote

It’s certainly not going to be easy to do but the goal is to find another Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green. You are a really fortunate in Golden State to build through the draft. In doing that we are able to get free agents to want to come play with those guys.

Quote

Other than the one trip to the Eastern Conference finals, they’ve been first round and out, a couple second round and out. How do we get the next step?

I don't think anybody is glossing over the real issue surrounding our franchise, but ...everyone has a preference as to how to resolve it.  That preference, IMO is sort of overshadowing what the actual issue is.  When I look at the statements made by our new GM, one thing stands out to me: this guy knows that top tier talent (the real issue) is needed to contend.  He also understands that we don't currently have it and haven't' had it for quite some time.

How do we get the next step?

The question is as much a question as it is a statement.  We need top tier talent to get to that next step.  Putting free agency and trades aside for a moment, you have to understand that this man knows how the draft works.  For that I have to pause for a second and address the merry-go-round.  There is talent to be found in from 15 all the way to 60 - you can name PLENTY of them.  However, what you also have to do is put the filler around them.  And this is where I have a problem...

How can we say that finding a Curry, Lebron, or Duncan between 1 and 14 is such a terrible strategy...and then say it's just as feasible to find that same caliber player in a much larger pool of players from 15 to 60 but at a significantly lower yield rate?

The merits of competing while also adding talent from the later pool could be debatable, but the viability/value of lottery picks vs. every other pick really isn't.  It's simply a preference to making the playoffs at ANY seed vs watching our team struggle.  Which I get.

Consequently, IF we (Hawks management) understand the nature of the draft and are not really putting our eggs in the draft basket (and I don't really see how we can be doing that with late picks), we need to add more context Schlenk's question: How do we get the next step [primarily through trades and free agency]?  Well, if the goal is "to find another Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green" then...  Are we saying that this team has the assets to trade for or will be able to lure via free agency All NBA quality talent?

I'm not into making predictions, but I do like reading between the lines and finding correlations.  I am a Cyberthreat Analyst by trade afterall...  Getting to the root of problems/situations and analyzing copious amounts of data is what I've done for the past 20+ years.  I'm not going to make any bets (looking at you Jaybird...lol), but our options are kind of spelled out for us and I think this guy gets it.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

Boom! Thank you & hopefully that ends this whole THJ talk.

Everyone has an opinion and are entitled to how they feel, like it should be on the squawk.

@Diesel hates Marvin williams and referred to him as duck butt for years if I recall that right

@NBASupes said al Horford is better than Karl Malone and once had high praise for OJ Mayo maybe still does.

@JayBirdHawk hates musucala (probably spelled his name wrong but who cares) and believes he's just awful and very weak physically 

@Lurker hates THJ & believes he's done growing

I personally hated josh bone head smith but thought he could have still been a star level player If he played with a higher bbiq and also thought Teague could have been all star player for consecutive years if he wasn't such a p*ssy.

 

.....ALL of us have strong opinions about specific players but none of our opinions are facts cause none of us know what's going to happen in the future.

@JTBHeeey, don't lump me in with the crazies. I don't hate Muscala, just don't think he's progressed enough to warrant any long drawn out discussion. I would like to upgrade his spot.

[NBASupes]

I only liked O.J. at that time period for that particular squad. 

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

Consequently, IF we (Hawks management) understand the nature of the draft are not really putting our eggs in the draft basket (and I don't really see how we can be doing that with late picks), we need to add more context Schlenk's question: How do we get the next step [primarily through trades and free agency]?  Well, if the goal is "to find another Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green" then...  Are we saying that this team has the assets to trade for or will be able to lure via free agency All NBA quality talent?

I took Colonel Schlenk's words to mean we need to scout, draft, and develop the next Curry/Thompson/Green like he did in Oakland. Then and only then will the A and B tier free agents be attracted to the Hawks, if we're winning. Not the MJs, LaBrawnas, or Currys. But the Butlers, Loves, and Thompsons.

Players like Aldridge, Paul George, and Davis would probably then be viable too. IF we wisely drafted/developed a gem or two, were winning, we still had Ressler/Schlenk/Bud, and all the arena/facility improvements were kick a$$. I think that's what Schlenk is getting at. That's gonna take a LOT of shrewd work, and a few years. 

Heres how to start: let Sap walk, trade Baze For a pack of Chicklets, don't re-sign THJr for anything more than $10mil/yr, and send Delamey/Thabold/Moose/Ryan/Dun-hurry-up-and-leavy packing. Bundle some of the $hit-ton of picks we've acquired to move up into the Top 10 and snag PF of the future Jonathan Isaac. Hit the floor with Menace/Yes-Way José, THJr/daFro, freshPrince/Isaac, Ilyasovavichkov/Isaac, D12/Hump. Lock up the candy bars from Dwight so he can drop 10lbs and only let him practice the PnR, NOTHING else. Enjoy the entertaining and wild spectacle of a Menace/THJr/Prince/Sova/D12 lineup for a year, win about 25-30 games, play the lottery for our C of the future. Let Dwight play out his final year with the lottery C coming off the bench, might even hit the lottery 2 years in a row. This draft Jonathan Isaac, 2018 lottery C, 2019 lottery SG. Have to bring in some decent vet FAs with the Baze trade and money saved from Sap's contract in the meantime. Then swing for the "homerun" FA signing in '20.

I think that's Schlenk's plan, and we have to accept this will be a 3-5 year process of semi-tank retool. Personally, I'll enjoy it more than what I just watched the last 2 seasons. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by hazer

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't hate Muscala, just don't think he's progressed enough to warrant any long drawn out discussion. I would like to upgrade his spot.

Yeah but do believe Bud will find a way to keep Moose on the roster, the teacher's pet thing. Maybe Schlenk already realizes that he is in essence a third string PF. Think its likely he'll be here and just hope the minutes aren't big and none are at center.