Poetic justice

[AHF]

1 hour ago, HawkItus said:

It wasn't collusion

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/sports/basketball/13nba.html

 

Exactly what I said earlier.  The league chose not to put the black hats on their brightest stars and didn't act on it.  If you read the actual rules in place at the time, you might come to a very different conclusion. We discussed those rules in detail at the time on this site and why it was illegal if they did it while they were still under contract.  That is why Bosh and the rest blatantly lied claiming they didn't speak until they were free agents (even though they admitted they talked while under contract on other occasions).   

Stern did not want a war against his stars.  He always liked favorable treatment of stars so why would he complain about a new superstar team?  All he wanted is for the media to start focusing their attention on the newest, greatest thing.  

[HawkItus]

17 hours ago, sturt said:

By the technical definition, it was collusion until that time that the secret/rumor was confirmed.

But then, I'm fine if if you prefer that the verb "conspire" or something else in that vein.

Rose is still a rose by any other name, and all of that.

The point remains. There is a difference in what LBJ and Bosh did in going to MIA to join Wade, and what any other players at any other point in NBA history did in order to put themselves in a position to win a ring.

So let me just be clear........

Scenario A

1.  Free Agents decide to play together

2.  Team clears cap space to accommodate players

3. Players sign deals that allow them to be compensated under the cap

4.  All this is negotiated with the team and agents, then signed off on by the NBA

= collusion

But........

Scenario B

1. Two GM's who are friends discuss a deal for top 5 player

2. Agree to leave top 10 player out of the deal

3. without consulting with any other player except the top 5 player 

= oh its fine because......

 

 

Q: To your earlier point about KD, when you changed teams and went to Miami, it was a different time. In order to get a player of your caliber or Kevin's caliber, you had to pretty much clear the decks and start over. Now you have a situation where a team is able to be a championship team already and add a player of Kevin's caliber. Is that good or bad for the league, in your opinion? And for a guy who pours his heart and soul into this, is it fair?

James is about to give a simple yet profound explanation of the collective bargaining agreement, where he reminds about his knowledge of the intricacies of the league and his status as players' association vice president.

LJ: Oh, I mean, it's part of the rules. The difference between my situation is -- well, the best thing with Golden State's situation is a lot of their guys are drafted. They drafted a lot of their guys. Three of their best players were already drafted, so they were able to hold on to them because they own the Bird rights, if everybody knows the CBA. So they're able to keep Steph, Klay (Thompson) and Draymond and able to go out and sign someone else like they did this past summer by just getting rid of a couple pieces in Harrison Barnes and not re-signing (Leandro) Barbosa and (Andrew) Bogut and guys from last year's team. So that allowed them to go do that.

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My case, going to Miami, we had to clear a lot of space because they didn't have anybody as far as guys that they wanted to keep as far as Bird rights besides U.D. (Udonis Haslem) and D-Wade. They had the opportunity to go get two of us, and they did that in me and Bosh, and then we were able to finagle a way to get Mike Miller because some of us took pay cuts and got some other guys. We had Rio (Mario Chalmers) because he was drafted. But it was a different situation. Totally different. Totally different. But is it fair? I don't care. I mean, I think it's great. It's great for our league. Right now, look at our TV ratings, look at the money our league is pouring in. I mean, guys are loving the game, our fans love the game. I mean, who am I to say if it's fair or not?

James says he doesn't pay attention to media in the playoffs, but this isn't wholly true as he's clearly aware of the strong television ratings the Finals have been getting on ABC. Game 3 was up 22 percent in metered markets from last season.

LJ: No matter who I'm going against, if I'm going against four Hall of Famers, like I said before the series started with Draymond, Klay, Steph, and KD, or if I'm going against two or whatever the case may be, I'm always excited to play the game. And I'm not one to judge and say if it's fair or not if guys are adding players to their team. So that's what you want to do. Is it fair that the New York Yankees in the '90s was adding piece after piece after piece after piece? I mean, if you have the opportunity to do that -- is it fair that the Cowboys added Deion Sanders?

 

James became a fan of both the Yankees and the Cowboys as a kid growing up in Ohio the 1990s in large part because of the star power they had on their teams at the time. He wears a different practice uniform (No. 6) than he wears in the games (No. 23) because he was inspired by Sanders, who did the same thing during his time in the NFL.

LJ: I mean, listen. It happens. It's sports. You have an opportunity to sign one of the best players, and you can do it, go ahead and do it. Why not? If I become an owner, I'm going to try to sign everybody. Appreciate it.

James' drop-the-mic moment came here as he walked away. He has said on several occasions he wants to become a professional sports owner in the future.

[sturt]

@HawkItus, your "scenario B" seems to be conveyed by you as-if the other GM was a double-agent, acting in cahoots with the first GM.

If you can prove that somehow, I'll agree, the NBA can't tolerate that... and why?... because it slants the fairness of opportunity for teams to compete. That's why. That's what this is all about. We're not going to have the same outcomes, naturally, because it's a competitive ecology. But you can have equal opportunity for GMs to construct their rosters, and as long as that standard is met within conventional reason, the integrity of the championship is kept sacred and intact.

I'm 99.97% confident you cannot prove it. Why? Because it's just almost never that any person making a deal with another person (friends or not) will act out of the best interests of the other person and not his own prospect for better fortune, whether in the short or in the long term. People not only like to keep their jobs (including GMs), they like to be that guy or gal who is perceived as very good at their jobs, and they like to enjoy success. They absolutely don't want to be that person deemed to be the schlep/idiot who made the bad deal. And yet, bad deals happen. Routinely have.

What you propose is a scenario where a person values a friendship more than his own professional reputation. That's nonsense. That's not to say "it's never happened," but if/when it did, there would have had to have been some extraordinary other circumstances that existed. I can't imagine what that would look like.

And.

Can we agree that success for the NBA is about far more than only the ratings for a 4 game championship series?

Far more.

LBJ is probably the last person to be considered a credible voice in this... hell, he's the prime instigator, the first person who decided to lower his scruples in order to get what he wanted, or maybe more accurately, to avoid what he didn't want (the label of never winning the big one). Everything that comes out of his mouth is going to naturally represent an attempt to somehow repair the perception of his integrity.

But that horse is out of the barn, and in a whole other state at this point.

Only thing LBJ could do is to acknowledge what everyone knows happened happened and, quite opposite of any of those words, stop the defensiveness and acknowledge what he and Bosh and Wade did was self-serving and has been a dark cloud over the NBA ever since they did it. If he ever became an authentic enough person to get real like that, I'm not saying he could be universally forgiven, but it would at least lend new respect for his character, right now, there's mostly only respect for his talent.

[Thomas]

On 6/8/2017 at 9:48 AM, macdaddy said:

To me though the officiating is still a problem that elevates great players to borderline unstoppable players.

Since the dawn of time and if you criticize them your wallet is lighter a couple of days later. The wrong individual is punished. 

[sturt]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/is-this-the-summer-nba-players-leave-millions-on-the-table-to-form-super-teams-and-compete-with-the-warriors

*sigh*

It's a disease. It really is.

If we're going to remedy it, those of us who feel strongly about it, imo, have to be part of the culture that history credits for tattooing "ring-brat" on the forehead of every ring-brat.