Hawks Front Office Healing?

[sturt]

1 hour ago, frosgrim said:

Leadership can make a difference, a huge difference.  A tightly wound FO may not seem like a problem during the moment but when you get the new guy in that is lose, but confident, it makes a huge difference in how you handle your day to day. Thus, I don't think there was a rift, (at least  until the Millsap thing), so much as there was a lot of tension in the FO because Bud and Wilcox were new and didn't really know what they were doing. 

Plausible.

But I have to say, this is at least the second time I've heard Schlenk talk in that way about how things were before he got there. He seems to not get it that when he makes any remark that casts the previous regime in a bad light, it can't help but reflect on the guy who he supposedly wants to consider him a partner. Bud's a seemingly humble-enough soul for someone in his position, but even to him, that kind of thing can't help but come across as self-congratulatory and abrasive. I don't think it's meant to be  that way, I just think Schlenk isn't used to being "the guy," and is too young to understand how it gets received.

 

[DrReality]

Bud seems very uptight and that doesn't set an attitude / culture that helps guys play loose.  Good article 

[sturt]

I dunno, @DrReality. That kind of thing in my experience echoes down from the very top. And Ressler puts off a vibe to me that is much more authoritarian or demanding or accountability-oriented or whatever you want to call it than Budenholzer or Wilcox ever did put together. My sense is, Schlenk doesn't yet know what it's like to get a text from your owner in the middle of a game. But based on what was said in the presser, he can expect that. Here's the difference... Schlenk walks in the door knowing he has some leash and some gravitas. Wilcox was always the guy who Ressler adopted but didn't really choose. I think that is meaningful.

[ATLien_]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The Question to this was 'Who wanted Dwight here' - he didn't name anyone. 

I'm sorry Steve Koonin's answer is a complete cop out. The four centers in the championship Zaza, Javelle, Tristan and Channing. 3 of which can't shoot outside of 3 feet, and the one that could shoot is worse defensively than Dwight on the perimeter. So he expects me to believe he saw that quartet and that made him say hmm time to get rid of Dwight? Just own it Steve you guys wanted him gone; don't try to make sweeping statements about bigs in the paint and the changing game. He did the same kind of BS when they got rid of Ferry. 

Bottom line is this organization was incapable or unwilling of integrating  Dwight. If they are unwilling to make changes to Bud's system incorporate him then own it. Don't blame Dwight for not being a floor spacer because he's never been that. Say we messed up and he doesn't fit the 5 out system we want to run. We brought him in because we got tired of Tristan Thompson assaulting us on the boards. He filled that role but it wasn't enough with the loss of Teague and Al. I guess the Hawks are going to bad mouth every player that leaves now. Al was smart to leave.

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

You're a moderator?

No, she thinks blocking is a really cool thing. Announces all the time if people don't like her opinions, they can block her.  What she fails to realize is that a message board is a marketplace of ideas and allowing one person to run a muck by ignoring them gives their ideas power that they may not deserve. Part of participating on a message board is exposing your ideas to public scrutiny. One should be ready to refute challenges to their ideas with actual facts and logic, not petty childishness.

[MaceCase]

4 hours ago, ATLien_ said:

I'm sorry Steve Koonin's answer is a complete cop out. The four centers in the championship Zaza, Javelle, Tristan and Channing. 3 of which can't shoot outside of 3 feet, and the one that could shoot is worse defensively than Dwight on the perimeter. So he expects me to believe he saw that quartet and that made him say hmm time to get rid of Dwight? Just own it Steve you guys wanted him gone; don't try to make sweeping statements about bigs in the paint and the changing game. He did the same kind of BS when they got rid of Ferry. 

 

 

No, Koonin has a point.  All of those big men were getting token starts and minutes in the Finals outside of Thompson whom most would consider a PF that plays C.  Zaza averaged 13 minutes in the Finals, McGee 6 minutes and played in only 4 games, and then Frye appeared in only one game which was garbage time for 11 total minutes.  Thompson was the only "Center" that got consistent playing time at 26mpg (below season and playoff average) but of course he can defend the PnR very well but even then saw his greatest strength ( his rebounding) suffer tremendously. 

No, I'd say Bud did well enough incorporating Dwight into the system but Dwight couldn't incorporate well into the current league.  Dwight would not be talking about working on his 3 ball if he himself did not notice this trend and we all know that he certainly would not settle for being a role player like all of those other limited bigs when he was already complaining about his current minutes.  In fact, Dwight working on an aspect completely outside of his game only signifies his continued refusal to settle into a limited role.

[CP61]

Lol at people thinking they know more about the goings on in the organization than people who personally know and speak to people in it.

[ATLien_]

7 hours ago, MaceCase said:

No, Koonin has a point.  All of those big men were getting token starts and minutes in the Finals outside of Thompson whom most would consider a PF that plays C.  Zaza averaged 13 minutes in the Finals, McGee 6 minutes and played in only 4 games, and then Frye appeared in only one game which was garbage time for 11 total minutes.  Thompson was the only "Center" that got consistent playing time at 26mpg (below season and playoff average) but of course he can defend the PnR very well but even then saw his greatest strength ( his rebounding) suffer tremendously. 

No, I'd say Bud did well enough incorporating Dwight into the system but Dwight couldn't incorporate well into the current league.  Dwight would not be talking about working on his 3 ball if he himself did not notice this trend and we all know that he certainly would not settle for being a role player like all of those other limited bigs when he was already complaining about his current minutes.  In fact, Dwight working on an aspect completely outside of his game only signifies his continued refusal to settle into a limited role.

Fair enough but it has more to do with the talent of those bigs than them being bigs. Which again I ask why paint yourself in a corner by making sweeping statements about bigs in the paint. What happens when a real big with talent becomes available; would he come to the Hawks? You open yourself up to negative recruiting by other teams. We already have a hard time getting free agents.

If any of those bigs were talented enough to punish GS for going small they would have done it. Alonzo Mourning would have fouled KD out in a New York minute trying to guard him and Draymond Green. I think the two teams that have given Golden State the most trouble were San Antonio and Memphis. Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol give GS fits. I keep saying this, but if LeBron can't beat GS playing their game then why it's everyone else trying to?

Milwaukee is the team that's built match up with GS imo, but I'm sure Jason Kidd is not the coach to get them there. They should be further along than where they are and regressed two years ago. They can play stifling defense and are extremely long, and can punish any switch GS makes. They need a real PG though.

[ATLien_]

7 hours ago, CP61 said:

Lol at people thinking they know more about the goings on in the organization than people who personally know and speak to people in it.

This is a forum of thought and discussion, none of us know what's going on internally including you, but I don't need to be inside to talk about public perception because it's public.

If we had ever won anything of significance; I would be swinging pom poms right along with you. This organization has a long history of ineptitude, and has earned no leeway to not be questioned. Why would I have any confidence they are doing things right when the best players in the league avoid us like a plague? Enjoy your Kool-Aid I won't be partaking. By the way, Dwight was so trash the people you trust so much made him our highest paid player exactly 1 year ago.

Edited June 24, 2017 by ATLien_
Because I'm a Boss

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ATLien_ said:

By the way, Dwight was so trash the people you trust so much made him our highest paid player exactly 1 year ago.

It was an experiment they tried that didn't work.  Better to move on quickly when you realize it's a combustible equation. That's why he's gone, he can't be the highest payed player that doesn't fit what you do especially when he'll complain about his reduced minutes.

The difference between those Cs you mentioned and Dwight is their mindset. They understood their role and how it fit in the team dynamics.

Randolph and M Garsol give the warriors fits because they are skilled offensive big men with range and passing skills,  it's not their brute force. They can score in a variety of ways.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ATLien_ said:

Enjoy your Kool-Aid I won't be partaking.

What's your beef with Kool-Aid??

[ATLien_]

36 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It was an experiment they tried that didn't work.  Better to move on quickly when you realize it's a combustible equation. That's why he's gone, he can't be the highest payed player that doesn't fit what you do especially when he'll complain about his reduced minutes.

The difference between those Cs you mentioned and Dwight is their mindset. They understood their role and how it fit in the team dynamics.

Randolph and M Garsol give the warriors fits because they are skilled offensive big men with range and passing skills,  it's not their brute force. They can score in a variety of ways.

You're saying the same thing I'm saying. Which is why I upset with the sweeping statement Koonin said about bigs in the paint. If you're big man free agent you see those comments are you coming to the Hawks? Marc Gasol and Randolph both play in the paint a lot, and Randolph isn't a shooter but is skilled around the basket.

As far as getting rid of Dwight I'm fine with it; I just don't like selling assets for pennies on the dollars to division rivals. 

My comment about the Kool-Aid remains. This organization has earned no benefit of the doubt on blindly supporting their moves. 

[Thomas]

If Schlenk does the job of bringing in talent and Bud concentrates on doing a better job of coaching that talent then ruffled feathers are a thing of the past. Bigger stuff for them to worry about such as how to win a game with what we start the season with.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

If Schlenk does the job of bringing in talent and Bud concentrates on doing a better job of coaching that talent then ruffled feathers are a thing of the past. Bigger stuff for them to worry about such as how to win a game with what we start the season with.

Winning is the great salve that heals most wounds.

Next best thing is to exceed expectations.

Meeting either standard will be a challenge this first season.

For my part, I'm hopeful that Schlenk is all that he's been advertised to be in terms of talent evaluation, because it's my observation he's already making some rookie mistakes specific to his role as chief spokesman and administrator.... and that's only important because, as he says, he wants a strong "partnership" with Bud. Can't be out there dropping the occasional knife on the floor, and be surprised to learn you're carving up some toes.

He's done nothing to dissuade me that he is all that's advertised, but then again, as I've been saying, he gets a honeymoon this draft regardless.

All jokes aside, I'm among the very anxious to evaluate the verbals and non-verbals on Monday when, one would especially expect the old boss will be sitting beside his new boss.

[MaceCase]

4 hours ago, ATLien_ said:

Fair enough but it has more to do with the talent of those bigs than them being bigs. Which again I ask why paint yourself in a corner by making sweeping statements about bigs in the paint. What happens when a real big with talent becomes available; would he come to the Hawks? You open yourself up to negative recruiting by other teams. We already have a hard time getting free agents.

If any of those bigs were talented enough to punish GS for going small they would have done it. Alonzo Mourning would have fouled KD out in a New York minute trying to guard him and Draymond Green. I think the two teams that have given Golden State the most trouble were San Antonio and Memphis. Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol give GS fits. I keep saying this, but if LeBron can't beat GS playing their game then why it's everyone else trying to?

Milwaukee is the team that's built match up with GS imo, but I'm sure Jason Kidd is not the coach to get them there. They should be further along than where they are and regressed two years ago. They can play stifling defense and are extremely long, and can punish any switch GS makes. They need a real PG though.

I don't know but this sounds like a bit of "back in my day!" The NBA as a whole has discovered how to defend back to the basket offense between zones, strong side blitzes, and analytics supporting that it isn't terribly efficient either so you can even leave a guy on an island defending it.  GS have gotten away with playing a 6'7" center to the tune of 2 championships in three years.  You don't think anybody has said "well we outta post them up!"?  And you picked Mourning of all people?  I don't know, I would have gone with a slew of other more offensively talented 80s-90s post bigs if I was creating a hypothetical of "who can beat the Warriors?"

It's not the talent of those bigs so much as their skillset.  And every other team you mention that gave GS trouble or would give them trouble, what did they have in common?  Skilled bigs that can shoot.  Not bigs that park themselves in the paint but bigs that can hit consistently all the way out to three, play not just from the low post but the high post, and facilitate to boot.

 Duncan, the Gasols, Aldridge, Randolph, they all can shoot and don't park themselves solely in the low post.  Even the Bucks spent their last two 1st rounders on shooting bigs. Every current talented big in the league possesses this so it's not a sweeping judgement by Koonin that includes them.  KAT, Cousins, Davis, Embiid, Porzingis, Brook Lopez, Dirk, Draymond, Horford, Jokíc, Love, Turner, Morris, etc. would not be insulted because guess what?  That's not applicable to them, they know they are not that limited to being paint dwellers and will not diminish their skill sets and talents to take faux offense at Koonin.  DeAndre, Gobert, Thompson?  They already know their roles and limitations yet give 100% energy without stipulations that they get fed the ball in the post first.

so in summary, I think your assement is overblown. 

[thecampster]

On 6/24/2017 at 11:02 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

What's your beef with Kool-Aid??

This

[bumpyphish1]

On 6/23/2017 at 6:51 PM, Watchman said:

Nothing shows that Schröder in a bigger role succeeds either.  Why is he still here?

There are two types of Hawks fans.  The ones who get Dennis and those, like the poster of the above quote, who do not,  Without being long winded.  Dennis was 23 last year.  A Euro--do the conversion and he's like 21 in USA years.  It was his first year as a starter and he averaged nearly 25 ppg in the playoffs.  If you don't  get that he is likely two years away from his prime with tons of room to improve and grow, if you don't get he is the most valuable asset we have, I will not take anything you say seriously and neither should anyone else.

On 6/23/2017 at 6:54 PM, Lurker said:

This is not about Schröder. You are not going to make me mad about slamming Schröder, so stop.

This is about Dwight Howard. Purely. Please realize that the Dwight Howard of today completely stinks and does not deserve to be in the NBA. Period. End of story.

more like it.