Concessions for Dennis.

[Diesel]

We readily concede the future to Dennis but he's not a guy that we should entrust the team to.   Everytime I hear Hawks fans talk about Dennis...it's always a but but but... and a well he's young and he'll develop out of it.

Before you start in with your defensive attacks... just think about all of the defense that we play for Dennis.  Marvin wasn't defended this much.  Then think about the fact that 70 Million dollars to Joe Johnson broke up the Hawks ownership.  

Here's the thing... Dennis is talented.... but he's not a PG.   It's going to be hard to watch us continue to bet our future on Dennis' development.   Sure he will put up Points.... but will we be any better?

 

[StephenHawking]

We can only wait and see

[Thomas]

You know Marvin is still in the league right? He probably misses your devoted attention.

[skimaskway23]

I hope he's here for the next 10 years

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

You know Marvin is still in the league right? He probably misses your devoted attention.

You mean the #2 pick overall that we passed up CP3 for??  Yeah.. I see that the Journeyman has finally found a spot to finish his mediocrity. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

 Then think about the fact that 70 Million dollars to Joe Johnson broke up the Hawks ownership.  

Lol, good one. 

[RedDawg#8]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

We readily concede the future to Dennis but he's not a guy that we should entrust the team to.   Everytime I hear Hawks fans talk about Dennis...it's always a but but but... and a well he's young and he'll develop out of it.

Before you start in with your defensive attacks... just think about all of the defense that we play for Dennis.  Marvin wasn't defended this much.  Then think about the fact that 70 Million dollars to Joe Johnson broke up the Hawks ownership.  

Here's the thing... Dennis is talented.... but he's not a PG.   It's going to be hard to watch us continue to bet our future on Dennis' development.   Sure he will put up Points.... but will we be any better?

 

I'll just start with this: I think you're completely wrong about Dennis.

I think his peak is a Kyle Lowry/ regular season Tony Parker level player. That's 19-22 ppg and 7-9 apg. He just finished with 18 and 6 last season so he isn't that far off and he's 23. That's damn good for a starting PG that's still entering his prime no matter how you slice it.

As for your debate:

Unlike Marvin, Dennis wasn't drafted to be a star or franchise player.

Unlike Marvin, Dennis didn't spend a couple years developing in college for one of the nations best programs/coaches. Dennis came here without much proof against top competition. (NCAA > Euroball just ask Delaney)

Unlike Marvin, Dennis wasn't given a starting job out the gates and actually proved himself and made the player in front of him expendable as a result. Quite the opposite of Marvin honestly.

Unlike Marvin, Dennis has already met/surpassed draft day expectations, with more room to go.

Unlike Joe, Dennis will not ever receive a max contract. Dennis currently makes a fair deal for his value. 70 mil ain't the same as it was in 2006

Unlike Joe, nobody ever confused Dennis as a superstar. 

 

 

I think a better person for your argument would be Kent Bazemore honestly. 

 

Dennis is not perfect, he can absolutely improve his game and leadership. But he is far from the disappointment that Marvin was. He is also far from being overpaid and regressing like Joe was. 

If we trade Dennis, I won't lose any sleep, nobody is safe anymore if you ask me. But him being here and his performance is nothing compared to the guys you mentioned. He is right the level you would expect for an international player drafted outside of the lottery as a teenager. 

 

 

[Lurker]

If you think that a younger 20s person is who they're going to be, I have another thing coming for you. Because that's just not true.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

We readily concede the future to Dennis but he's not a guy that we should entrust the team to.   Everytime I hear Hawks fans talk about Dennis...it's always a but but but... and a well he's young and he'll develop out of it.

Before you start in with your defensive attacks... just think about all of the defense that we play for Dennis.  Marvin wasn't defended this much.  Then think about the fact that 70 Million dollars to Joe Johnson broke up the Hawks ownership.  

Here's the thing... Dennis is talented.... but he's not a PG.   It's going to be hard to watch us continue to bet our future on Dennis' development.   Sure he will put up Points.... but will we be any better?

 

 

The President is right on this.  We have no choice.

Also consider this, when you say that Dennis is "no point guard". what exactly does that mean?   If you mean, "does he make his teammates better", I'd suggest that the following players aren't point guards either.

- Stephen Curry

- Kyrie Irving

- Isaiah Thomas

- Kyle Lowry

- George Hill

- Damian Lillard

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Lurker]

I don't think Dennis's peak is Kyle Lowry. He is a better three point shooter than the stats show but he is not a very good off the dribble three point shooter.

There are two things he mainly needs to do:

1. Stop taking off of the dribble three point shots unless necessary. If you must than set yourself before pulling.
2. Quit overdriving.

Otherwise I think a lot of this place and AJC are going to be both shocked and disappointed when Dennis plays with different frontcourt mates with the narrative that has gone on lately. He might be more selfish and take more shots but you're not going to see him just blatantly ignore the center he plays with now.

[Admin]

Eveytime Marvin's name is mentioned by @Diesel a little bunny is boiled.

 

[RedDawg#8]

51 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I don't think Dennis's peak is Kyle Lowry. He is a better three point shooter than the stats show but he is not a very good off the dribble three point shooter.

There are two things he mainly needs to do:

1. Stop taking off of the dribble three point shots unless necessary. If you must than set yourself before pulling.
2. Quit overdriving.

Otherwise I think a lot of this place and AJC are going to be both shocked and disappointed when Dennis plays with different frontcourt mates with the narrative that has gone on lately. He might be more selfish and take more shots but you're not going to see him just blatantly ignore the center he plays with now.

I was moreso referring to career trajectory versus playing style. Not to many players share Dennis' playing style imo but as far as production I see them similarly, as Lowry spent many years as a good but not great player for a couple different teams before finally becoming an all star in Toronto. I can see some 23 ppg seasons down the road for Dennis but he will average high teens for his career and get you 7-8 assists when it's all said and done

[bleachkit]

He is honestly better than I expected. When I saw him his rookie year I thought he was going to be a complete bust.

[Peoriabird]

He will continue to get better because the kid wants it!  He said it!!. He wants to train with the best i.e Wall during the off-season so give the dude a chance.

[ViewsFromTheSquawk]

Saving this thread for when dennis is an all star next season... 

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I'll just start with this: I think you're completely wrong about Dennis.

I think his peak is a Kyle Lowry/ regular season Tony Parker level player. That's 19-22 ppg and 7-9 apg. He just finished with 18 and 6 last season so he isn't that far off and he's 23. That's damn good for a starting PG that's still entering his prime no matter how you slice it.

 

 

Let's work with your stats here.  Looking at ppg/apg is not telling.  Look at Dennis' passing stats vs. these others.  (from 82games.com)

Dennis:

Ass/Bad Pass = 4.0,  Pass Rating = 84.

Lowery

Ass/Bad Pass = 5.6 ,  Pass rating = 9.6

Parker (this year)

Ass/Bad Pass = 6.2, Pass rating = 8.4

Just for Grins..  TEAGUE

Ass/Bad Pass = 5,7, Pass rating = 11.6

 

Sure, Dennis can get 6 apg.. but the quality of his passes sucks.. mainly because he doesn't care about learning to get guys the ball in their spots.  Mainly because he has NEVER been interested in running the offense.  

It makes me mad to watch him just wave guys over and wave guys to the left and the right in the offense set so that he can get the drive that he wants.  It makes me mad to watch him see guys with Position and just ignore them.  How many times did I see Sap or D8 have position... (man sealed) in the post with hand outstretched to see Dennis act like he didn't see it.  People make the statement that Dennis did good because they would have missed the shot??? Really?? that's the common defense for Dennis now.  He makes non-basketball decisions because he's some type of Nostradamus. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

Saving this thread for when dennis is an all star next season... 

Let's see.  Irving, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, Walker, Thomas, Dragic, Lin... hell even Payton... Yeah... Dennis makes the Allstar game if he catches all those guys with a Tonya Harding pipe to the knee or something.

[Watchman]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The President is right on this.  We have no choice.

Also consider this, when you say that Dennis is "no point guard". what exactly does that mean?   If you mean, "does he make his teammates better", I'd suggest that the following players aren't point guards either.

- Stephen Curry

- Kyrie Irving

- Isaiah Thomas

- Kyle Lowry

- George Hill

- Damian Lillard

 

Stephen Curry doesn't make his teammates better?  Uh huh.  (eyes roll back in forehead)

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Lurker said:

I don't think Dennis's peak is Kyle Lowry. He is a better three point shooter than the stats show but he is not a very good off the dribble three point shooter.

There are two things he mainly needs to do:

1. Stop taking off of the dribble three point shots unless necessary. If you must than set yourself before pulling.
2. Quit overdriving.

Otherwise I think a lot of this place and AJC are going to be both shocked and disappointed when Dennis plays with different frontcourt mates with the narrative that has gone on lately. He might be more selfish and take more shots but you're not going to see him just blatantly ignore the center he plays with now.

I can't wait to start the count of how many other players fault it is that Dennis fs up.   So far... D8 and Millsap.  Plumlee, Collins, Moose... get ready for your share of Blame. 

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, ViewsFromTheSquawk said:

Saving this thread for when dennis is an all star next season... 

The only way he gets an all-star spot is if Bud is the East coach.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Watchman