Concessions for Dennis.

[rd79]

57 minutes ago, Diesel said:

This is the difference between us.  You are a fan of one player.  I am a fan of the team.  And you're right... I have expectations of EVERY PLAYER because I want to seem them Help THE TEAM win.  And so yes... I am critical of Players at time and I am just as critical of the Front Office at times.  Also, I applaud Players at times and I applaud the front office at times.   That's what happens when you are fans of THE TEAM.  

At 1st, I want to see Dennis on a winning team and I would love to see him winning a ship. And since I saw nearly every Hawks game in four years - including preseason and even summer league to a certain extend - I started to really care about the Hawks too. When Dennis entered the league I only wanted to see him win and thought it might have been better for him to play on a worse team to get more playing time. But now I know that in ATL he got the exact environment he needed to improve. The right mixture of competition, trainer strict when he had to be, the need to earn his minutes on a winnig team. I think if he would have started in a environment like Sacramento it's possible he weren't even in the league right now. That's why I want him to improve, lead this team and pay back the faith they had in him - lead them to the title.

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It's like this...  IF Dennis is traded, we will probably never see you again on Hawksquawk.  But us fans of the Hawks will still be here....and we will still be supporting the Team.

Possible, but not probable, I think Hawks would still be my 2nd choise, even in front of the MAVs which are the first Team I was really interested in (for obvious reasons) but I never followed them they way I do follow the Hawks. 

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Sometimes people on this board get it so confused.  They think that we should be fans of Bad Picks because we picked them.  They think that because we're critical of what the coach or the front office did with one player that we were fans of that one player... NO NO...  When you make a trade like the trade we made with DHoward or Joe Johnson... or when you let a guy like Smith or Teague walk and get nothing in return... then that speaks to why we have to be critical of the Front Office.  IF we were like You rd79.. and fans of those players only... we would have been gone.... and no we are not NEGATIVE.. we want to see our TEAM put  up their best...

Being critical is an essential part of being a fan, critize everybody for actuall mistakes but it often looks like you're really overcritical. I can't remember you cheering about something. To me it seems you and some others are always negative and not able to enjoy the good things. Maybe you just don't write here when you are happy and like something - but for me it looks like some here are nearly always negativ, which would be something I could understand if this were the Sacramento board...

We make the playoffs and some react like. "Eh we don't have a chance I rather lose out completely than losing in the 1st or 2nd round." And that is the complete opposite of "we want to see our TEAM put  up their best..." And every talk about tanking is also not about putting up the best possible results...

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and we would love to see our team win a Ship.   Oh yeah.. that's the other thing.. I don't know how it is in Germany.. if that's yall's thing.. but us Americans are COMPETITIVE.  That's why every year, we want the Hawks to win a Ship... even if we know it's not possible.

Americans are the only ones which love winning that much that they are willing to see their teams lose for years to make winning possible - not even probable. And you also are the only ones who have a system where that might work. We love to see our teams win and we desperatly want to see them win. Because if you lose over here you aren't awarded with the best young players, You drop out of the league and the teams existence is put on the line. My favorite soccer team plays in the 3rd division now and is working hard every year to find some money to avoid total elimination. So don't tell me something about being competetive.

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As far as Dennis is concerned.  You say that he shows a lot of effort.  I agree.  However, where is his effort focused... is it focused on making the TEAM better or getting His?  I think when you examine that question, you see the difference between where I stand and where you stand.  You defend him because he puts up good stats.  I criticize him because he put up good stats to the detriment of the TEAM.

Everytime I seem him diving on the floor or out of bounds, not caring about pain, I know he fights for the team. Such actions aren't even visible in the box score. I would like to see him play (as a starter) with some players able to hit the basket before I finally judge his passing abilities and his will to let others score.... I'd bet his stats would look different on a team like the 2015 Hawks, who were able to spread the floor and hit jumpers... 

Edited June 27, 2017 by rd79

[StephenHawking]

Please please Diesel don't tell european people about fandom. I can tolerate all your opinions and moreover appreciate them in discussions but please don't tell us what kind of fans american people are and of what kind we are.

You probably never been to germany. I've been to the US on multiple occasions and went to a couple of football and basketball games there. Let me tell you it's not even comparable with european sports fans. 

To you guys it's more of entertainment and watching a game if they play good. If they play bad you rather use your time for other things and turn off the tv. 

The soccer team from my hometown had to go down a league a year ago and played awful but guess what the spectator cut didn't change. Still 50000 people attend every game and tear their heart out for the club.

[rd79]

9 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

Please please Diesel don't tell european people about fandom. I can tolerate all your opinions and moreover appreciate them in discussions but please don't tell us what kind of fans american people are and of what kind we are.

You probably never been to germany. I've been to the US on multiple occasions and went to a couple of football and basketball games there. Let me tell you it's not even comparable with european sports fans. 

To you guys it's more of entertainment and watching a game if they play good. If they play bad you rather use your time for other things and turn off the tv. 

The soccer team from my hometown had to go down a league a year ago and played awful but guess what the spectator cut didn't change. Still 50000 people attend every game and tear their heart out for the club.

Nonono, AVG was only 49,499  

[Diesel]

59 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

Please please Diesel don't tell european people about fandom. I can tolerate all your opinions and moreover appreciate them in discussions but please don't tell us what kind of fans american people are and of what kind we are.

 

I didn't mean to group the whole EU in what I said.  I was going based on what rd said.  Rd said 

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For me it looks like some people here act more like consumers than fans. You pay to see the Hawks and spend your time following them and that's why you think they owe you something, some even seem to think they owe you a ship... The only thing I expect from professional athletes is that they do their best to win. And that by the way is why I hate the concept of tanking.

My statement (a blanket statement I admit and apologize for any unintended consequence) was that I don't know how it works in Germany, but as Americans we are COMPETITIVE and we want to win a SHIP every year... no matter how good our team is.

I appreciate you for telling me how it is for some European folks but I was not saying that European people are not competitive.. I was saying that I personally don't know... especially after rd's statement.

[DennistheMenace17]

We'll bring up this thread when Dennis gives his HOF speech.  Or maybe when we celebrate his new statue outside of Philips.  Or even maybe when he becomes the next chancellor of Germany, assuming that he can beat Dirk out of that spot.  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, rd79 said:

At 1st, I want to see Dennis on a winning team and I would love to see him winning a ship. And since I saw nearly every Hawks game in four years - including preseason and even summer league to a certain extend - I started to really care about the Hawks too. When Dennis entered the league I only wanted to see him win and thought it might have been better for him to play on a worse team to get more playing time. But now I know that in ATL he got the exact environment he needed to improve. The right mixture of competition, trainer strict when he had to be, the need to earn his minutes on a winnig team. I think if he would have started in a environment like Sacramento it's possible he weren't even in the league right now. That's why I want him to improve, lead this team and pay back the faith they had in him - lead them to the title.

I welcome your Hawks fandom.  But let's understand... you're still a fan of Dennis first and then the Hawks.  What I mean is that if it were Dennis who went to Indy instead of Teague, you'd be on a Pacer fanboard right now and you'd be learning to appreciate the Pacers.   I think that's the difference between us... it's not even about recognizing your countrymen as much as for me it's about my age.

I grew up in Atlanta.  I am a fan of All Atlanta teams.  Hawks, Braves, Falcons, Dream, Chiefs, Thrashers, and Flames.   I mentioned some of those other teams to point out something.  I'm oldschool.   Oldschool basketball used to be TEAM oriented.  You wasn't a fan of one player... you was a fan of the team.    It wasn't until Magic and Bird that people became fans of players.  Unfortunately, I  predate Magic and Bird.  I was a fan of the Hawks when we had the Fastbreaks cheering.  When we had Fast Eddie Johnson and John Drew on the team.  Back when the Hawks was "America's Team".  Back before"Dominique was Magnifique". 

So here's something about us Oldschool guys:  We are loyal.  When we go to the Barbershop, we have the same Barber and he's like family.   We tend to go to the same Gas station no matter how many sheets they put around it.     We tend to compare everything to our day.  We were all HURT Bad by watching the Falcons lose to the Pats but we will still show back up when Football season starts and we will still root for the Falcons and wear our Falcon stuff around because we ARE LOYAL to the team.   So when we talk about being a fan of the team... We are not really fans of one player on the team above the team.  We're fans of the team above ANY player.  So at all times every player is tradable if it will make the TEAM better.  So are we old guys critical.. YES.  BUt we're critical because we want to see what's best for the TEAM.

[Lurker]

American college football, especially in the Southern United States, is the only thing that can really compare with sports fandom with the rest of the world. People are WILD in the South about it.