Where the Heck is Coach Bud??

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Wouldn't it be great if we found our Dan Quinn for the Hawks?  Someone that could identify a players strengths and us it to help the team as a whole as oppose to have this rigid system that require a certain type of player?  What I mean is that a perfect Bud player would have to possess so many offensive skills to be successful only a few players will help the team win.  Deandre Jordan would be useless on a Bud coached team.

We already have him.  What player besides Dwight hasn't been incorporated into the system?

Bud's system isn't rigid.  Golden State, SA, Boston, and the Hawks all run a version of the read and react system.  I believe Miami does too. 

Deandre Jordan would be fine in Bud's system because he sets good screens and rolls to the basket.  He also defends the pick and roll really well.  Now would Bud pull him in the fourth because of his free throw shooting probably.

You can't say a system that's this successful is bad.  The only thing a player needs is a high BBIQ, passing ability, and some shooting to run this system.  Even better if you have handles.

I think you're going to besurprised this year when you see Collins play.  He has actual post moves and I'm pretty sure you'll see a lot of drive and dish. The system is even more effective when your big can post, pass, rebound, defend the pick and roll and shoot outside of 10 feet. 

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You can't say a system that's this successful is bad. 

 

You considered last year a success?  Mike smith has successful seasons also so what's the difference between the 2?

[marco102]

I was referring to the System which San Antonio used to win 5 championships and Golden State used to win 2 championships. @Peoriabird.

The system has evolved as Bud stated, if you listen to Kerr he says he's put a lot of what San Antonio runs into his system.

Edited July 8, 2017 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I was referring to the System which San Antonio used to win 5 championships and Golden State used to win 2 championships. @Peoriabird

Those systems required hall of fame players.  Most coaches can be successful with a bunch of hall of Fame players

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Those systems required hall of fame players.  Most coaches can be successful with a bunch of hall of Fame players

What system in the NBA has ever won a championship without hall of fame players?

Also, Bud was very successful without hall of fame players.  He's taken the Hawks further than any coach in Atlanta.  My point is still why hate on Bud so much?  Every coach makes questionable decisions.  Now if you're hate for Bud stems for his GM actions I fully support you. I don't think he was ready for that roll, but coach Bud is a damn good coach!

Edited July 8, 2017 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

What system in the NBA has ever won a championship without hall of fame players?

The question is which coach has won without Hall of fame players?  Those are the coaches that stand out not Bud.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

The question is which coach has won without Hall of fame players?  Those are the coaches that stand out not Bud.

No coach has won an NBA championship without a Hall of Fame player. You realize that right?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

No coach has won an NBA championship without a Hall of Fame player. You realize that right?

Some coaches created hall of fame players from less regard prospects...Others have won with generational talents like Lebron.

[Peoriabird]

All I'm trying to say is that Bud is nothing Special.  He had I special regular season because of Korver and nothing since.  Sounds like Mike Smith to me.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Some coaches created hall of fame players from less regard prospects...Others have won with generational talents like Lebron.

And if you fire Bud, you won't give him the opportunity to do that.

 

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

All I'm trying to say is that Bud is nothing Special.  He had I special regular season because of Korver and nothing since.  Sounds like Mike Smith to me.

All I'm saying is you said Brad Stevens is a top 3 coach, which is special, who took a team no one suspected to the number 1 seed  and the ECF.  Bud did the same thing, yet you think more highly of Stevens than Bud which you haven't supported with any facts as to why Stevens is better than Bud, yet.

Now if you want to say you don't like Bud because of his President efforts, then I can understand.  Coach Bud has not had a top 10 draft pick to work with since he's been here Brad Stevens had about 3 or 4.  Give Coach Bud a couple of lottery picks to mold and I think we'll see a great team in a few years. 

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Now if you want to say you don't like Bud because of his President efforts, then I can understand. 

Coaches have to be great talent evaluators period...There is no way around that and Bud simply is not.  Just like Smith was terrible...So is Bud.  Quinn on the other is a great talent evaluator.  He would find those Drammond Greens in the second round and not mike Muscalas.  We need our Quinn!

[marco102]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Coaches have to be great talent evaluators period...There is no way around that and Bud simply is not.  Just like Smith was terrible...So is Bud.  Quinn on the other is a great talent evaluator.  He would find those Drammond Greens in the second round and not mike Muscalas.  We need our Quinn!

Actually TD, Pioli, and the scouting department find players to fit coach Quinn's scheme based on what Quinn wants in a player.   Now Bud and Schlenk can collaborate on what best fits the system and maybe Schlenk and his scouts have a better eye for talent than the previous regime.

Coaches can be terrible talent evaluators, GM's are supposed to find the players, coaches have to improve their skills.

Also, this is my last comment on the topic, I believe we've officially hijacked the thread..lol

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Actually TD, Pioli, and the scouting department find players to fit coach Quinn's scheme based on what Quinn wants in a player.   Now Bud and Schlenk can collaborate on what best fits the system and maybe Schlenk and his scouts have a better eye for talent than the previous regime.

Coaches can be terrible talent evaluators, GM's are supposed to find the players, coaches have to improve their skills.

Also, this is my last comment on the topic, I believe we've officially hijacked the thread..lol

yep

[LastDon]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This seem about right

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19024161/coach-ratings-1-30

 

Scott Brooks, Duane Casey, Tyrone Lue and Spolstra are not better coaches than bud imo..

[NBASupes]

I would like Bud to stay and create his culture with young players with the potential to become superstars. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I was referring to the System which San Antonio used to win 5 championships and Golden State used to win 2 championships. @Peoriabird.

The system has evolved as Bud stated, if you listen to Kerr he says he's put a lot of what San Antonio runs into his system.

You know the REAL SECRET with San Antonio and Golden State?

Their system is actually predicated on DEFENSE, not offense.  Golden State didn't become this great team, until they became a better defensive team.  Once that happened, it opened up the offense via transition points.  With San Antonio, their defense was so good, that they could win any style of game.

Duncan was the defensive anchor of the Spurs.  Green is the defensive anchor of the Warriors.

Who is the Hawks defensive anchor?

Oh I forgot, we let him walk without even talking to him.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

36 minutes ago, LastDon said:

Scott Brooks, Duane Casey, Tyrone Lue and Spolstra are not better coaches than bud imo..

What makes Bud any more special than those guys?

And I'm a Bud supporter . . . but not a Bud apologist.  Last season he did not do an above average job coaching this team.  He was a C coach last year.  Spoelstra was outstanding the 2nd half of the year.  Lue has gone to 2 straight NBA Finals.  And Brooks kicked out butts in the playoffs.  Even with Casey, the Hawks always have problems with Toronto.

Honestly, Bud's legend here is based off of 2 months of almost perfect basketball, with a bunch of mediocre basketball surrounding that.

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

No coach has won an NBA championship without a Hall of Fame player. You realize that right?

WE had one . . . but we traded him to Charlotte.

[Peoriabird]

39 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What makes Bud any more special than those guys?

And I'm a Bud supporter . . . but not a Bud apologist.  Last season he did not do an above average job coaching this team.  He was a C coach last year.  Spoelstra was outstanding the 2nd half of the year.  Lue has gone to 2 straight NBA Finals.  And Brooks kicked out butts in the playoffs.  Even with Casey, the Hawks always have problems with Toronto.

Honestly, Bud's legend here is based off of 2 months of almost perfect basketball, with a bunch of mediocre basketball surrounding that.

 

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[marco102]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You know the REAL SECRET with San Antonio and Golden State?

Their system is actually predicated on DEFENSE, not offense.  Golden State didn't become this great team, until they became a better defensive team.  Once that happened, it opened up the offense via transition points.  With San Antonio, their defense was so good, that they could win any style of game.

Duncan was the defensive anchor of the Spurs.  Green is the defensive anchor of the Warriors.

Who is the Hawks defensive anchor?

Oh I forgot, we let him walk without even talking to him.

Well the Hawks have been top 12 in league in defensive effiency since Bud's been here. The worst was 12th in his first season and the rest he's been top 10.  So I guess he's still pretty good even though you're mad they let Milsap Walk.  Like I said President Bud and coach Bud have to be viewed differently and I'm glad Bud's not the President anymore and can focus on coaching.

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What makes Bud any more special than those guys?

And I'm a Bud supporter . . . but not a Bud apologist.  Last season he did not do an above average job coaching this team.  He was a C coach last year.  Spoelstra was outstanding the 2nd half of the year.  Lue has gone to 2 straight NBA Finals.  And Brooks kicked out butts in the playoffs.  Even with Casey, the Hawks always have problems with Toronto.

Honestly, Bud's legend here is based off of 2 months of almost perfect basketball, with a bunch of mediocre basketball surrounding that.

WE had one . . . but we traded him to Charlotte.

Bud's legend was built on his first season here when the Hawks made the 8th seed and pushed a heavily favored Indiana team to  7 games.  2014 - 2015 was just magical.

Spolestra did an excellent job last year. 

Lue won with Lebron how many championships would Lue have gotten with the Hawks roster? Would he have made the playoffs?

Scott Brooks did beat bud in the playoffs. What adjustments did he make that Bud could not adjust to?  Was it that Brooks had more talent on his team?  President Bud can be blamed for a lot of this and he no longer has that job.

If Dwight Howard played like this year through out his career average 13 and 12 would he have been a hall of famer?  Nope. He will make the Hall of Fame based off his first few years in the league that played a completely different style of basketball.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by marco102

[sillent]

6 hours ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

It's either that or Bud realizes that he was in over his head as coach/gm and has now decided to just be the coach.

I wouldn't say in over his head but this experience has definitely humbled him. He, like myself probably didn't agree with the moves but he and the Atlanta University will be up for the challenge. Schlenk knows Bud is a critical piece to all of his and though they are shockers and eye openers Bud will buy in and coach  with a chip on his shoulders.

As long as Bud still has players like Prince, Bembry, Muscala and Dennis I think he will feel and stay obligated to making the best of his situation and prove that he wasn't exactly over his head with the moves he made. He also has an opportunity to be bigger than Pop making a winner out of the team he has been given.

Bud knows it's coach up or shut up time and with coaches like Spoeltra and Stevens making something out of nothing he will be licking his chops at the challenge. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by sillent