What do you think about this....

[Diesel]

How do you think Bud would have used Josh Smith?

[DrReality]

On the bench if he threw up his clunkers. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by DrReality

[Peoriabird]

31 minutes ago, Diesel said:

How do you think Bud would have used Josh Smith?

As trade bait

[TheNorthCydeRises]

33 minutes ago, Diesel said:

How do you think Bud would have used Josh Smith?

At center.  Of course, we're talking about 2012 Josh.  And he would've given Josh a little leeway with taking 3s.  And with Josh's passing skills, he possibly could average 4 assists a game.

[Diesel]

52 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

At center.  Of course, we're talking about 2012 Josh.  And he would've given Josh a little leeway with taking 3s.  And with Josh's passing skills, he possibly could average 4 assists a game.

I don't know if he would have placed him at C , but i agree that he would have let him chuck the three and he would have left him on the floor because of his passing and defense. 

Some people may have forgotten.. our first playoff series with Bud.  We played the Pacers.   We had nothing and were the 8th seed and we almost knocked them out because Bud let everybody shoot 3s.   I think Budball would have loved Smoove and Joe. Well maybe not Joe because he tended to stop the ball movement.. but Old man Joe fitted well in Utah. 

 

[ThomasCredle]

I would like to think he would have maximized his freakish athleticism and prevented the bad habits that damaged his career.  Im not sure any coach could have really done much though he never seemed like a coachable player to me.  Too dependant on raw athletic ability and not willing to work on doing the little things that make you truly great.

[pimp]

I don't think it would make a difference. Bud is not miracle worker.  Josh does whatever he wants . 

He played same way in Atlanta , Detroit , Houston, and La.  and China.

[NBASupes]

Josh would suck in today's NBA

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, pimp said:

I don't think it would make a difference. Bud is not miracle worker.  Josh does whatever he wants . 

He played same way in Atlanta , Detroit , Houston, and La.  and China.

When he left us, he was already ruined goods.   However, I think Bud would have enjoyed Young Josh.   Hate to say it but I think Woody gave in to the pressure and didn't coach Young Josh correctly.   The pressure is actually some of the similar pressure that Bud may face.  Young Josh had become a star on the national level and he was still young.   Instead of benching him whenever Josh would mess up, Woody would coddle him and placate him and allow him to develop into a grown Child on the court.   So you had all the skill and ability with no guidance.  Woody was in this predicament because his team was losing and when he was on the court, Josh helped and ASG started selling the Josh Merch.. and whatever Josh did well would bring the Hawks good press. 

 

[AHF]

I don't hate to say that Woody and Larry were terrible coaches for Josh. I've said it plenty of times already in the past.  They aren't the sole reason he failed to develop correctly - Josh bears plenty of the blame himself - but I would have loved to see Josh come in with a better coach who was willing to sit him to force him to develop ala what Bud has done with a lot of our young guys who successfully developed under him.

[capstone21]

I never liked Smith and thought he was more of a detriment And was glad when he left.

[Peoriabird]

So y'all are blaming Josh's failed post-Atlanta NBA career on Atlanta coaches?

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I don't hate to say that Woody and Larry were terrible coaches for Josh. I've said it plenty of times already in the past.  They aren't the sole reason he failed to develop correctly - Josh bears plenty of the blame himself - but I would have loved to see Josh come in with a better coach who was willing to sit him to force him to develop ala what Bud has done with a lot of our young guys who successfully developed under him.

There's a line there.   How much responsibility can a player have for his own development?  We all readily admit that the right coach can develop a player.  Doesn't that mean that the wrong coach can ruin a player?  If that be the case, how much control does the player really have?  It's not like Josh didn't work on his game. I mean, he bulked up.  He lost weight.  He went to Houston to work out with Hakeem.  So with all the going, what is there to say about what role the coach plays?

[Diesel]

19 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So y'all are blaming Josh's failed post-Atlanta NBA career on Atlanta coaches?

When he left us, he was a 9 year vet.   There was not much that could be done with his mentality.  If you want to pick straws though, he did have a really good year in Houston.  He learned to be a role player off the bench there.   However, yes... we watched him go down down and down as a Hawk. 

 

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So y'all are blaming Josh's failed post-Atlanta NBA career on Atlanta coaches?

Sometimes I scratch my head and wonder how you regurgitate someone else's point so differently than they articulate it.

I hope I am abundantly clear that during Josh's formative seasons as an NBA player he had some terrible coaching that led to him having some terrible tendancies that led to the premature ruin of his career.  The coaches don't bear all the blame and Josh bears a very heavy part of that blame because he should have been smart enough to make the adjustments himself but his first two coaches were enablers of his worst habits.  By the time he left us, he was ruined and he didn't take it on himself to turn things around but kept up the habits that emphasized his weaknesses and limited his strengths like an alcoholic who keeps drinking.

The alcoholic deserves blame for not looking themselves in the mirror and deciding to make a change but so do the guys who kept handing him drinks.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

There's a line there.   How much responsibility can a player have for his own development?  We all readily admit that the right coach can develop a player.  Doesn't that mean that the wrong coach can ruin a player?  If that be the case, how much control does the player really have?  It's not like Josh didn't work on his game. I mean, he bulked up.  He lost weight.  He went to Houston to work out with Hakeem.  So with all the going, what is there to say about what role the coach plays?

If he was a smarter player, he would have recognized what he did well and what he did poorly and pushed himself to minimize his weaknesses and emphasize his strengths.  He did the opposite.  He definitely bears a big part of the blame.

Even with the same coaches, if you put Paul Millsap's brain in Josh's body you would have an All-NBA player.  Josh's brain in Millsap's body would be someone who might not make it past their rookie contract.  He was wired to play the wrong way and his early coaches enabled that instead of reprogramming him ala THJr.  I blame both the coaches and Smith's lack of self-awareness/BBIQ.

 

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

Even with the same coaches, if you put Paul Millsap's brain in Josh's body you would have an All-NBA player.  Josh's brain in Millsap's body would be someone who might not make it past their rookie contract.  He was wired to play the wrong way and his early coaches enabled that instead of reprogramming him ala THJr.  I blame both the coaches and Smith's lack of self-awareness/BBIQ.

 

That's an interesting comparison.. Millsap and Smith.  I sit and wonder sometimes about Hawks University.   Why is it that Sap didn't flourish until he came to Atlanta.  I mean, he lost his starting spot to Favors... mainly because Favors was more Athletic.   In your conclusion about players developing themselves, In Utah... Millsap never did.   I mean he was good but he wasn't a 2 time allstar and star player to boot.  I think given that circumstance and DMC... I mean, DMC looked great for us.. went to Toronto.. different coach, different system and he sucked eggs.  I bet now with Atkinson we will see DMC back to looking really good again.  I don't think the player is blameless but I think that coaching plays a big role...  Boris Diaw...