Can you call out the Hawks errors???

[nathan2331]

Team Options are great things...

 

Millsap probably wouldn't go for a team option. We would've wanted the longer deal, not him.

 

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[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

I agree 100%. We give him too many responsibilities on offense, and his play sometimes suffers because of that. But as someone who supported his resigning, I'm still happy he's on the team, even if the dollar amount is high. I know this sounds hyperbolic, but I don't think we're far from the 60-win team. Coach Bud I still think is the best coach in the league, but is currently having to use a roster with some bottom barrel talent. I can't predict the future, but with the right draft pick and FAcy moves, we could become a contender very quickly.

 

 

 

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I want to believe that... but another thought arises.

Maybe it wasn't Bud.

Maybe it was Atkinson.

Maybe Bud is a good idea guy and a good Harrah Harrah Guy but Xs and Os are not his thing. 

It just seems like Atkinson knows how to get something out of nothing.

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Millsap probably wouldn't go for a team option. We would've wanted the longer deal, not him.

 

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My thing is I think Ferry was afraid of both TO and POs...  If we had a 1 year deal PO on Sap, we could have opted him out a year early and paid the man. 

Or we could have brought DMC in with a TO.

[nathan2331]

 

 

I want to believe that... but another thought arises.

Maybe it wasn't Bud.

Maybe it was Atkinson.

Maybe Bud is a good idea guy and a good Harrah Harrah Guy but Xs and Os are not his thing. 

It just seems like Atkinson knows how to get something out of nothing.

 

It was probably a combination of both along with Snyder and the other assistants. But watching the Hawks play now, I still think we compete every night in games we have no business winning considering we've got guys like Cavanaugh and Delaney playing large minutes for us. Atkinson is also great coach, but you should still acknowledge the Hawks try to play basketball the same way, even if they execute worse than previous years.

 

My thing is I think Ferry was afraid of both TO and POs...  If we had a 1 year deal PO on Sap, we could have opted him out a year early and paid the man. 

Or we could have brought DMC in with a TO.

 

That I can agree with, but again, this is all in hindsight. Nobody could have predicted the brief success we had.

 

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[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

It was probably a combination of both along with Snyder and the other assistants. But watching the Hawks play now, I still think we compete every night in games we have no business winning considering we've got guys like Cavanaugh and Delaney playing large minutes for us. Atkinson is also great coach, but you should still acknowledge the Hawks try to play basketball the same way, even if they execute worse than previous years.

 

 

 

That I can agree with, but again, this is all in hindsight. Nobody could have predicted the brief success we had.

 

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Predicted... No.. But made preparations for.. yes.

If Ferry Believed in them like he said he did, he should have done better contract building.  It did the same thing to Baze.  It was his way but it was shortsighted considering the rules.

[MaceCase]

On 11/21/2017 at 6:35 AM, Diesel said:

Let's ask this question..

Over the last ten years... what are some of the mistakes that the Hawks have made??

 

 

On 11/21/2017 at 9:24 AM, MaceCase said:

In retrospect, not blowing up the 60 win team.  2 months defined the whole franchise trajectory.

 

On 11/21/2017 at 3:16 PM, MaceCase said:

Those guys were all held onto instead of traded at the peak of their value because of the win streak.  They never proved that they could win at that level beforehand or afterwards yet the Hawks paid the price for trying to hold onto them only to watch them leave or get traded years later for next to no return.

 

50 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Subject change Macecase to save face...

Speaking of Just playing Dumb...  I quote you your own words and you ignore it and come back with insults... You're only fooling a few flunkies here Mace...

Moreover, boy isn't hindsight 20/20...

[AHF]

Couple of really basic points that seem to be ignored in some posts here:

 

1 - We literally could not have kept both DMC and Sap.  With the paydays they demanded after the 60 win season we did not have the cap room to keep them both.  We chose Sap over DMc which was the right call.

 

2 - It is undisputed that Ferry tried to sign DMC and Sap to longer deals and both refused because they wanted to be FAs again sooner.  POs would not have helped us at all because both would have exercised those options and left us in the same position when they became free agents.  TOs would have been great but follow the basic logic and you'll see that they are less attractive for a player than a guaranteed contract so if they turned down guaranteed contracts they would obviously turn for a TO past year 2.

[Peoriabird]

Why are we still talking about DMC anyway like he was some difference maker????  Toronto couldn't wait to unload his contract and he is 31 now and playing no better than Taurean Prince. 

[Sothron]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Team Options are great things...

 

They wouldn't have agreed to come here. It isn't like this is news...both of those guys signed here precisely because they only wanted short term "show me" deals that if they played well they could then turn around get PAID. And guess what? That's what they did. Blaming Ferry because the players wouldn't sign longer term deals is just silly.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

 

2 - It is undisputed that Ferry tried to sign DMC and Sap to longer deals and both refused because they wanted to be FAs again sooner.  POs would not have helped us at all because both would have exercised those options and left us in the same position when they became free agents.  TOs would have been great but follow the basic logic and you'll see that they are less attractive for a player than a guaranteed contract so if they turned down guaranteed contracts they would obviously turn for a TO past year 2.

I think you misjudge Sap.  I think Sap would have worked with us if we would have made promises to him.  I don't think Sap wanted to leave when he left, it's just that we didn't make any moves to keep him.

[Lurker]

Here's the number one error:

1. Not hiring an actual standalone GM.

The end. I would have liked for there to have been more effort with Millsap, but right now, he's hurt and out for 3 months, and we saw how bad the team looked without it being "depleted" last year...terrible. It was so terrible it wouldn't have been rescued by any other ole' Joe at PG.

Maybe if an actual standalone GM is hired, we don't see stupid moves made...like Bazemore to that contract.

[hazer]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Why are we still talking about DMC anyway like he was some difference maker????  Toronto couldn't wait to unload his contract and he is 31 now playing no better than Taurean Prince now. 

Because the Dieselputer is a Commodore 64 stuck in the past. Just like this thread.

[AHF]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think you misjudge Sap.  I think Sap would have worked with us if we would have made promises to him.  I don't think Sap wanted to leave when he left, it's just that we didn't make any moves to keep him.

Sap would favor us as long as he was at or near market rate.  We signed him to a second contract for near market.  We decided he wasn't worth this contact given his age and our lack of ability to contend.  The way he was signed and resigned didn't prevent us from keeping him.  The cost of maintaining a .500 team was the barrier and PO doesn't affect any stage of that progression.