Grudge Match....

[Diesel]

 

The 94 Hawks...

vs. 

The 2014 Hawks...

 

The Second Bout on our card....

The 2004 Hawks...

vs. 

The 2017 Hawks

 

The substance that we're looking for is matchups... player strengths... coaching. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

The 94 Hawks...

vs. 

The 2014 Hawks...

 

The Second Bout on our card....

The 2004 Hawks...

vs. 

The 2017 Hawks

 

The substance that we're looking for is matchups... player strengths... coaching. 

 

Which 94 Hawks?  Nique's 94 Hawks . . . or Danny Manning's 94 Hawks?

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Which 94 Hawks?  Nique's 94 Hawks . . . or Danny Manning's 94 Hawks?

Everybody knows that Nique's team was the good one. 

 

[Thomas]

Ugh, Danny Manning, our 26 game mistake. I know hindsight is 20/20 but even back then who else would trade a HOF for even the possibility of just 26 games. At the very least we should have done a better job of measuring the risk of Manning being such damaged goods. Truly an extremely painful finger in our eye. I think I need a mental block on the subject.

[Diesel]

54 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Ugh, Danny Manning, our 26 game mistake. I know hindsight is 20/20 but even back then who else would trade a HOF for even the possibility of just 26 games. At the very least we should have done a better job of measuring the risk of Manning being such damaged goods. Truly an extremely painful finger in our eye. I think I need a mental block on the subject.

But do you think that Nique team is better than the Big 4 (Al, Paul, KK, and Teague) with DMC??

[NBASupes]

2014 v. 94 is tough. I'll go with 2014. The system was better and the game evolved. That doesn't mean 94 was good for it's time but it's just a different game. 

 

04 was horrible on every level. 17 is the best bad team in the NBA. The NBA in 2004 lack depth and the coaching was bad with non-playoffs teams back then. Clearly 17 and it's not even close. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 11/28/2017 at 9:06 PM, Diesel said:

Everybody knows that Nique's team was the good one. 

 

I need video context, specifically to see how the role players were playing.

1994 Hawks

 

2014 Hawks 

 

 

[Thomas]

21 hours ago, Diesel said:

But do you think that Nique team is better than the Big 4 (Al, Paul, KK, and Teague) with DMC??

A lot of it is the scheme really. The better passing offense definitely was the new age version of the Hawks but when it gets to crunch time at the end of the games that version is designed to keep finding the the three point shooters and in the playoffs we don't hit those the last few minutes of any post season game. So based on that and being that I'm a Nique homer as well I'll go with the not so efficient but very courageous clutch time scorer to be the difference. If Nique didn't score then in the nineties decade he had earned the ref's respect enough to go to the line at least some of the time. Will take that over choking myself to death with missed threes when we have to score late to survive a playoff battle. 

[pimp]

I'll take the 94 team over the 2014 team.
Jeff Teague  hasn't dealt with the kind of defense  that 94 Mookie would put on him.
If Tristan Thompson dominated the boards vs the 2014 hawks, what do you think Kevin Willis would have done to them?
I think Augmon would have done a good job guarding Korver. Plus 94 team had Nique.

I'll take 2017 team over the 2004 team
.  That 2004 team  had no point guard ,  no center  , and  6 SFs 

[AHF]

I'll rank them this way:

2014-15 Team During the Streak #1

1993-94 Team With Nique #2

1993-94 Team Without Nique #3

2014-15 Team Overall #4

2014-15 Team Not During Streak #5

 

My thinking is that the 2014-15 team had a similar total record but was way more erratic.  They were champ level play during the streak but teams adjusted and started disrupting that synchronicity and they weren't deep enough to deal with injuries.  

The 2014-15 team won 94% of their games in December and January but only 56.5% of games in March and April.  It was an incredibly fun season and I was totally up for cheering them as far as they could go but I was more worried about losing in the second round to the non-contending Wizards than I was legitimately optimistic about beating the Cavs even missing both Love and Irving.

The 1994-95 team won 68% of games with Nique and then 68% of games without Nique.  They were much more consistent and I think would have much better suited to sustain that excellence in the playoffs had they kept Nique.

Unfortunately, both were pretty massive longshots to bring home a ring.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I need video context, specifically to see how the role players were playing.

1994 Hawk

 

2014 Hawks 

 

 

I think what gets lost in the conversation is just how good a defensive team that 1994 Hawks team was.   I know that there are jokes about Dominique taking plays off, but when you had Mookie and Plastic Man.. you had two lock down defenders.  I know we say that 2014 was a great three point shooting team... However, the question is would they ever have open looks?  I've seen Mookie make it difficult for guys to get past halfcourt.   I'm sure he could have been that much more disruptive.   The plastic man on KK matchup would have been interesting.  Could DMC stop Nique?

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

One of the things about that 1994 team was that Dominique was wildly inconsistent.  At this time, his offensive consistency was more like slightly better version of Carmelo Anthony.  The difference is that even when Nique was off, his teammates were good enough offensively and defensively to still win games.

The 2014 ( 2015 ) team was a well balanced machine, with a different "hero" emerging every night.  But as soon as Thabo got hurt, the 2015 Hawks became a mediocre team.  That team needed ALL of their parts playing their role at the highest level, in order to win games.

 

Koncak vs Horford = Big advantadge Horford

Willis vs Millsap = Push

Nique vs Carroll = Big advantage Nique

Augmon vs Korver = Advantage Augmon

Blaylock vs Teague = Advantage Blaylock

 

1994 bench:  Whatley ( PG ) - Ehlo ( G ) - Ferrell ( F ) - Lang ( F/C )

2015 bench:  Schröder ( PG ) - Bazemore ( G ) - ( F ) Thabo - ( F ) Scott - ( C ) Antic

 

Advantage: 2015 Bench

 

I think Blaylock and Augmon have the ability to make life hell for the 2015 backcourt.  Add Ehlo to the mix, who was also a big defensive guard/forward, you have a set up in which Korver would be choked off by both Augmon and Ehlo.  And if you took away the ability for Korver to get 3 point buckets, that would impact the offensive ability of the 2015 Hawks tremendously.

Despite Dominique not being known for being consistently great in the playoffs, I'll take the potential of him going off in a playoff game and winning the series, than the "Hawk collective" playing great team basketball and winning.

Edge to the 1994 team.

[pimp]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

One of the things about that 1994 team was that Dominique was wildly inconsistent.  At this time, his offensive consistency was more like slightly better version of Carmelo Anthony.  The difference is that even when Nique was off, his teammates were good enough offensively and defensively to still win games.

The 2014 ( 2015 ) team was a well balanced machine, with a different "hero" emerging every night.  But as soon as Thabo got hurt, the 2015 Hawks became a mediocre team.  That team needed ALL of their parts playing their role at the highest level, in order to win games.

 

Koncak vs Horford = Big advantadge Horford

Willis vs Millsap = Push

Nique vs Carroll = Big advantage Nique

Augmon vs Korver = Advantage Augmon

Blaylock vs Teague = Advantage Blaylock

 

1994 bench:  Whatley ( PG ) - Ehlo ( G ) - Ferrell ( F ) - Lang ( F/C )

2015 bench:  Schröder ( PG ) - Bazemore ( G ) - ( F ) Thabo - ( F ) Scott - ( C ) Antic

 

Advantage: 2015 Bench

 

I think Blaylock and Augmon have the ability to make life hell for the 2015 backcourt.  Add Ehlo to the mix, who was also a big defensive guard/forward, you have a set up in which Korver would be choked off by both Augmon and Ehlo.  And if you took away the ability for Korver to get 3 point buckets, that would impact the offensive ability of the 2015 Hawks tremendously.

Despite Dominique not being known for being consistently great in the playoffs, I'll take the potential of him going off in a playoff game and winning the series, than the "Hawk collective" playing great team basketball and winning.

Edge to the 1994 team.

i believe Lang took the starting from Koncak.

Also , what rules are they playing under? Could today’s players handle the physicality of 90s players?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, pimp said:

i believe Lang took the starting from Koncak.

Also , what rules are they playing under? Could today’s players handle the physicality of 90s players?

Both teams would have a big fish out of water challenge if they had to play in eachother's era.  Dealing with the pace and space would be rough for 90's while dealing with handchecking would be brutal for the 10's.  I kind of ruled that a wash and ignored it myself but it is a good question.

[Thomas]

Guess the question really ends up with the weight of the refs. Eighties and nineties NBA was so much more physical than the LeBron era. You know LeBron beefing about getting fouled all the way up court when actually he just steamrolls everyone with no need for conscience. His conscience would be very bruised twenty years ago. Rodman would have made some kind of impression on LeBron I do believe. Decades of NBA roundball have created imbalanced apples and oranges now really. Not the same game now for better or much worse. Sell those shoes guys.   

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, pimp said:

i believe Lang took the starting from Koncak.

Also , what rules are they playing under? Could today’s players handle the physicality of 90s players?

Nah.  Cak started 78 games out of 82 that year, while Lang didn't start a single one.  Cak started all 11 playoff games as well.

[pimp]

35 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Nah.  Cak started 78 games out of 82 that year, while Lang didn't start a single one.  Cak started all 11 playoff games as well.

Oh , ok 

I guess over time my memory fused with what i wanted to happen back then . ☺️

[AHF]

44 minutes ago, pimp said:

Oh , ok 

I guess over time my memory fused with what i wanted to happen back then . ☺️

Cal averaged 22 mpg while Lang was just under 20 mpg.  Pretty even split.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Thomas said:

Guess the question really ends up with the weight of the refs. Eighties and nineties NBA was so much more physical than the LeBron era. You know LeBron beefing about getting fouled all the way up court when actually he just steamrolls everyone with no need for conscience. His conscience would be very bruised twenty years ago. Rodman would have made some kind of impression on LeBron I do believe. Decades of NBA roundball have created imbalanced apples and oranges now really. Not the same game now for better or much worse. Sell those shoes guys.   

LeBron would dominate in the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s, etc. LeBron would be the best player in every era. 

[AHF]

Don't know about best player but he would dominate in every era.