Revisitation: Dennis vs D8....

[StephenHawking]

vor 7 Stunden, Diesel sagte:

If the statement about both D8 and Sap were that they were in decline.. then why is it that when most players go to a new team, you expect a dropoff in their stats because they have to get used to a new system and new players.   Look at Paul George for instance.  Or Kevin Love going to Cleveland.  Or Jimmy Butler going to Minny.  However, why is it that a declining Millsap didn't miss a beat in his new system?  If he's declining, you would have expected a great drop off. 

You can also find numerous other players who didn't have those kind of issues joining a new team

[StephenHawking]

First of all the dropoff Millsap had this year was bigger than the one he had the season he joined us.

Couple of contradictory examples from just this off-season: 

Oladipo, Sabonis, Russell, Bellinelli, Kris Dunn and Lou Williams.

[Lurker]

Denver fans were wanting to bench Paul, saying he didn't fit with Jokic and had declined defensively.

There's always more than meets the eye than 16 points 8 rebounds and shooting numbers, whether you like this fact or not.

[AHF]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

If the statement about both D8 and Sap were that they were in decline.. then why is it that when most players go to a new team, you expect a dropoff in their stats because they have to get used to a new system and new players.   Look at Paul George for instance.  Or Kevin Love going to Cleveland.  Or Jimmy Butler going to Minny.  However, why is it that a declining Millsap didn't miss a beat in his new system?  If he's declining, you would have expected a great drop off. 

Thanks.  That is much clearer.  I would say two things:  First, I expect Sap to age fairly well not to fall off a cliff as he declines physically.  Second, Sap has his lowest PER in 8 years, his career low TS% and career low WS/48.  Not doing great this year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 hours ago, Lurker said:

Oh, look at the @Diesel spin cycle. Since you were proven as negligible, you change the subject around. 

Let me help you. Let's change the subject back to Dwight Howard.

10-16

Turning the ball over too much.

A 97 offensive rating.

(( touching your head like Mr. Spock ))

Remember . . . .

 

Dwight is like a stripper at Magic City.  As long as you show interest, and keep them engaged, they'll put on a good show for you.   Ignore them, or don't tip right, and the performance will be lackluster.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, StephenHawking said:

You can also find numerous other players who didn't have those kind of issues joining a new team

were they considered declining?  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Thanks.  That is much clearer.  I would say two things:  First, I expect Sap to age fairly well not to fall off a cliff as he declines physically.  Second, Sap has his lowest PER in 8 years, his career low TS% and career low WS/48.  Not doing great this year.

I'm not into the fancy stats like that.. maybe a tutorial is in need, but the eye test says that when he played, he wasn't bad.  Which is not what you would expect for a declining player. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Thanks.  That is much clearer.  I would say two things:  First, I expect Sap to age fairly well not to fall off a cliff as he declines physically.  Second, Sap has his lowest PER in 8 years, his career low TS% and career low WS/48.  Not doing great this year.

OK.. So revisited.  You're down on Paul Millsap with this TS% at a "Career Low".  However, he's shooting more 3 pters and hitting at a higher rate.  He's hitting 2pters at about the same rate... and he's going to the FT line less and hitting at a lower rate.

So your fancy stat complaint is that Paul's FT% is dipping which effects his TS% and his PER even though overall, 2 and 3pters he's doing better..

Stats and Lies. 

[AHF]

56 minutes ago, Diesel said:

OK.. So revisited.  You're down on Paul Millsap with this TS% at a "Career Low".  However, he's shooting more 3 pters and hitting at a higher rate.  He's hitting 2pters at about the same rate... and he's going to the FT line less and hitting at a lower rate.

So your fancy stat complaint is that Paul's FT% is dipping which effects his TS% and his PER even though overall, 2 and 3pters he's doing better..

Stats and Lies. 

Career low on 2pt% is better than what?  

Terrible 2pt shooting for him and big drop in ft%.  3pt% is better but not good.

The stats aren't lying.  Anyone saying his scoring efficiency is improved is lying.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Career low on 2pt% is better than what?  

Terrible 2pt shooting for him and big drop in ft%.  3pt% is better but not good.

The stats aren't lying.  Anyone saying his scoring efficiency is improved is lying.

2 pt% is the exact same as it was Last year.

3 pt% is 3% higher than Last year and he's shooting almost 1 more 3pter per game. 

The only real dip is his FT% and FTA.    I don't even know if that should be a part of Efficiency?  His FTA is down because he's shooting more from outside.   How do you get true Shooting percent when 44% is based on FTs?

And the PER is about the same...

[StephenHawking]

vor 15 Stunden, Diesel sagte:

If the statement about both D8 and Sap were that they were in decline.. then why is it that when most players go to a new team, you expect a dropoff in their stats because they have to get used to a new system and new players.   Look at Paul George for instance.  Or Kevin Love going to Cleveland.  Or Jimmy Butler going to Minny.  However, why is it that a declining Millsap didn't miss a beat in his new system?  If he's declining, you would have expected a great drop off. 

That was what I was reffering to.

Neither of the mentioned players had that kind of issue. 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

2 pt% is the exact same as it was Last year.

And it was a career low and terrible last season.  Last season was a huge drop in his efficiency on these shots.

Quote

3 pt% is 3% higher than Last year and he's shooting almost 1 more 3pter per game. 

And he still isn't very good on 3's.  His efg% on 3's last year was abysmal.  This year it has risen to subpar.  

Quote

The only real dip is his FT% and FTA.    I don't even know if that should be a part of Efficiency?  His FTA is down because he's shooting more from outside.   How do you get true Shooting percent when 44% is based on FTs?

 

I agree the FT numbers are a dip but you don't understand the TS% formula if you think 44% is based on FTs.

Quote

And the PER is about the same...

His PER fell off a cliff last season dropping from 21 to 17.  It has tumbled a few more feet down that cliff this year.

Short version - Sap was significantly worse last year than his prior years in Atlanta.  He has been somewhere between unchanged and a bit worse than that this year.

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

And it was a career low and terrible last season.  Last season was a huge drop in his efficiency on these shots.

And he still isn't very good on 3's.  His efg% on 3's last year was abysmal.  This year it has risen to subpar.  

I agree the FT numbers are a dip but you don't understand the TS% formula if you think 44% is based on FTs.

His PER fell off a cliff last season dropping from 21 to 17.  It has tumbled a few more feet down that cliff this year.

Short version - Sap was significantly worse last year than his prior years in Atlanta.  He has been somewhere between unchanged and a bit worse than that this year.

For the past two seasons he shot 31% from three and while we wasn't excited about it, we didn't complain.  This season he's shooting 34% and you are crying subpar? OK.. well, he's still better than he was here.   And that's in a new system with a new PG and a new coach. 

I would suggest that his shooting is that much better because he doesn't have a PG i who isodribbles,  drives, gets in trouble and throws a last second pass to him with the clock going down. 

PER like TS% makes use of FT%.. Well, with Sap's free throw percentage being down, I would expect that his PER would be down too.  Again, I understand Free throws are a part of the game but Hollinger's stats pump them up a little more than they should be. 

[Lurker]

Good evening here's your nightly reminder that Dwight Howard freaking sucks.

[BrazilianHawk]

On 11/12/2017 at 7:04 PM, GThawks3 said:

Dennis is the best player on this team and I hope he’s here to stay.

Better player on the team? That would be Paul Millsap.

 

Oh wait... Looks like he wasn't in the ATL to stay. Schlenk is an idiot.

[Diesel]

On 12/11/2017 at 4:04 PM, GThawks3 said:

Dennis is the best player on this team and I hope he’s here to stay.

This is a very interesting statement.  Right now, we're one of the worst teams in the league.  Second to Last if I'm not mistaken.   Dennis is the best player on a bad team... does that mean that he's good?  Several years ago (2004), we finished 13-69.  Antoine Walker (Employee #8) was our Best Player.  By your logic, we should have never gotten rid of him.  Do you think that would have been a good thing?

[Lurker]

Your daily reminder....

99 offensive rating, despite *****being fed and fanned*****.

3.6 TO per game, for a guy that doesn't handle.

10-16, including multiple bad losses.

[AHF]

40 minutes ago, Diesel said:

This is a very interesting statement.  Right now, we're one of the worst teams in the league.  Second to Last if I'm not mistaken.   Dennis is the best player on a bad team... does that mean that he's good?  Several years ago (2004), we finished 13-69.  Antoine Walker (Employee #8) was our Best Player.  By your logic, we should have never gotten rid of him.  Do you think that would have been a good thing?

Dennis is absolutely not the guy to build around.  If Robert Covington is your best player you are screwed.  Both guys are young and have talent, however, so they can be useful players on the team.  

You only get rid of them if they interrupt your team building or if you get an offer that is worth giving them up.

[GThawks3]

23 hours ago, Diesel said:

This is a very interesting statement.  Right now, we're one of the worst teams in the league.  Second to Last if I'm not mistaken.   Dennis is the best player on a bad team... does that mean that he's good?  Several years ago (2004), we finished 13-69.  Antoine Walker (Employee #8) was our Best Player.  By your logic, we should have never gotten rid of him.  Do you think that would have been a good thing?

Well let’s see. Walker was 28 years in 04-05 while Schröder is 24 years old.  Schröder is homegrown while it was Walker’s first and only season in Atlanta.

They both averaged the same amount of points though Walker averaged 9 more minutes per game. Schröder is shooting 45.5% while Walker shot 41.5%. Schröder also has a lot higher PER and TS%.

So to answer your question I didn’t care at all losing Walker and not seeing the comparison.

[Diesel]

12 hours ago, GThawks3 said:

Well let’s see. Walker was 28 years in 04-05 while Schröder is 24 years old.  Schröder is homegrown while it was Walker’s first and only season in Atlanta.

They both averaged the same amount of points though Walker averaged 9 more minutes per game. Schröder is shooting 45.5% while Walker shot 41.5%. Schröder also has a lot higher PER and TS%.

So to answer your question I didn’t care at all losing Walker and not seeing the comparison.

Yeah, but your logic is keep Schröder because of he's our best player NOW. Schröder is 45 amoungs players in efficiency .  He's 11th amoung PGs in FG% and he's 25 amoung PGs in 3pt% and you think this is somebody that should run this team going forward?  The Rookie Alonzo Ball has more assists than Dennis.