Liking how many times we're losing in the final minutes

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't think he's that type of talent. I just don't, I think he's a Dirk type, you gotta build and get lucky. I am not sold on that, we couldn't do it with Al. I would rather Bamba or Ayton. Both need a lot less long term

Dirk took some time to get going as a youngster but was a super beast in their championship year.   He was an NBA MVP a few years before they made the finals.  I'd take that career from our top pick this year without hesitating.

[Sothron]

Yes, if our pick is "only" going to be on a Dirk Diggler level sign my ass right up for that.

[frosgrim]

39 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't think he's that type of talent. I just don't, I think he's a Dirk type, you gotta build and get lucky. I am not sold on that, we couldn't do it with Al. I would rather Bamba or Ayton. Both need a lot less long term

I haven't seen a full Ayton game live, but I just looked at highlights (as I did with Donic). Honestly, I think they both bring some very good skills to the Hawks, but both need work. Ayton is huge, has a ton of muscle, and seems to have a 12' jumper. His best move is to dunk. 

Issues: doesn't know how to use his size or strength. He should be dominating on the boards, but he seems tentative when going after rebounds.  His hands seem a little clumsy.  Footwork will need a ton of work on the block (but what 18-19 year old has good foot work?). 

Overall, I like him but I like Donic more. Donic has some fire and has NBA ready offensive moves. Ayton will get demolished by seasoned centers for a few years - as does about every young big coming in the NBA. 

That all said, Ayton, certainly is a talent and, if he stays healthy, we might be lucky to have him. 

One last thing, I keep thinking of the Jordan and Durant drafts- bigs went ahead of those guys. I so don't want the Hawks to be the team that gets the Oden or Bowie instead of the Durant or Jordan... (irrational, but there it is). 

[benhillboy]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Dirk took some time to get going as a youngster but was a super beast in their championship year.   He was an NBA MVP a few years before they made the finals.  I'd take that career from our top pick this year without hesitating.

Man I would’ve sworn Dirk won regular season MVP and League MVP in the same year when he absolutely tore through the postseason.  He was 5 years removed.  No notable career bests in ‘06 outside of win shares so I guess it was more of a team award.  It seemed so unceremonious now that I remember the epic Warriors upset over them.  I think Kidd and Chandler were the X factors for their championship team but he certainly did the heavy lifting.  

I personally don’t want a guy who has to “fit” to be successful.  With high IQ, athleticism, and skill you fill in the gaps of your team, not vice versa.  Kinda like Jimmy Butler erroneously trying to acclimate himself early on amongst a team with questionable IQs and defensive acumen.  Over the past month he said eff it and carried them in spite of their shortcomings.

Edited January 3, 2018 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

Doncic is special. I want to make that clear. I just think Bamba and Ayton have more potential.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, frosgrim said:

I haven't seen a full Ayton game live, but I just looked at highlights (as I did with Donic). Honestly, I think they both bring some very good skills to the Hawks, but both need work. Ayton is huge, has a ton of muscle, and seems to have a 12' jumper. His best move is to dunk. 

Issues: doesn't know how to use his size or strength. He should be dominating on the boards, but he seems tentative when going after rebounds.  His hands seem a little clumsy.  Footwork will need a ton of work on the block (but what 18-19 year old has good foot work?). 

Overall, I like him but I like Donic more. Donic has some fire and has NBA ready offensive moves. Ayton will get demolished by seasoned centers for a few years - as does about every young big coming in the NBA. 

That all said, Ayton, certainly is a talent and, if he stays healthy, we might be lucky to have him. 

One last thing, I keep thinking of the Jordan and Durant drafts- bigs went ahead of those guys. I so don't want the Hawks to be the team that gets the Oden or Bowie instead of the Durant or Jordan... (irrational, but there it is). 

Ayton and Bamba aren't injury prone like Oden and Bowie. Most bigs drafted that high are legit if they have the talent. Not some weak draft type pick. Passing up on Doncic is more like D. Russell more than M. Jordan

Edited January 3, 2018 by NBASupes

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Ayton and Bamba aren't injury prone like Oden and Bowie. Most bigs drafted that high are legit if they have the talent. Not some weak draft type pick. Passing up on Doncic is more like D. Russell more than M. Jordan

There are plenty of bigs who get drafted that high and bust for non-injury reasons too.  Here are some top 3 picks standing 6'10'' or higher who busted outright or ended up more of a role player.  (Not including guys like Andrew Bogut although you could make a case for healthy Bogut being more role player than star).

Jahlil Okafor #3

Derrick Favors #3

Hasheem Thabeet #2

Darko Milicic #2

Kwame Brown #1

Stromile Swift #2

Michael Olowokandi #1

Raef LaFrentz #3

etc.

 

If Doncic ends up like D. Russell in his third year that will be him busting pretty hard.  (Career 1.7 WS)

 

[Guard]

Doncic looks like a potential number 3 option on a championship team. The Hawks need talent so I’d welcome him with open arms. I just don’t think he’s the kind of guy you throw the ball to in crunch time so he can put the team on his back. I don’t know if that kind of player is in this draft in all honesty. 

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, Guard said:

Doncic looks like a potential number 3 option on a championship team. The Hawks need talent so I’d welcome him with open arms. I just don’t think he’s the kind of guy you throw the ball to in crunch time so he can put the team on his back. I don’t know if that kind of player is in this draft in all honesty. 

I am not a scout and don't claim to have that talent but I think he looks like he can be more than that.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

There are plenty of bigs who get drafted that high and bust for non-injury reasons too.  Here are some top 3 picks standing 6'10'' or higher who busted outright or ended up more of a role player.  (Not including guys like Andrew Bogut although you could make a case for healthy Bogut being more role player than star).

Jahlil Okafor #3

Derrick Favors #3

Hasheem Thabeet #2

Darko Milicic #2

Kwame Brown #1

Stromile Swift #2

Michael Olowokandi #1

Raef LaFrentz #3

etc.

 

If Doncic ends up like D. Russell in his third year that will be him busting pretty hard.  (Career 1.7 WS)

 

Both Bamba and Ayton is superior to both of those prospects, just like Doncic is superior to other busts. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Guard said:

Doncic looks like a potential number 3 option on a championship team. The Hawks need talent so I’d welcome him with open arms. I just don’t think he’s the kind of guy you throw the ball to in crunch time so he can put the team on his back. I don’t know if that kind of player is in this draft in all honesty. 

He's gonna be a #1 option. Too gifted with the ball and gifted off of it as well. He's special 

[Guard]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I am not a scout and don't claim to have that talent but I think he looks like he can be more than that.

I’d be more inclined to agree with you if he was a better shooter. We wouldn’t even be having this discussion. 

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's gonna be a #1 option. Too gifted with the ball and gifted off of it as well. He's special 

Hopefully I’m wrong but I just don’t see a superstar when I look at Doncic. I see a key piece on a championship team which isn’t nothing to sneeze at. Dude isn’t giving me the vibes a guy like Embiid did coming out of Kansas. Like I said, hopefully I’m wrong if he does end up on the Hawks.

 

[AHF]

39 minutes ago, Guard said:

I’d be more inclined to agree with you if he was a better shooter. We wouldn’t even be having this discussion. 

 

 

Kid is 18 and doubles his FGAs and is shooting 47.5% from the floor.  34% from 3 isn't great but how many scorers weren't great from 3 at 18?  The form is solid and he has his some deadly 3s.  

[frosgrim]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:55 PM, NBASupes said:

Doncic is special. I want to make that clear. I just think Bamba and Ayton have more potential.

I get you. I like Donic a little better now. But, I'm open to Ayton or Bamba as well. I really need to see more of Ayton to get a sense of what he is. Those hands just worry me, but it could be that he's still learning how to catch the ball as he grows into his frame.

[benhillboy]

On 1/3/2018 at 6:08 PM, AHF said:

If Doncic ends up like D. Russell in his third year that will be him busting pretty hard.  (Career 1.7 WS)

 

Bruh I had to immediately check that in disbelief.  It was clear that Clarkson (7 WS) and Randle (7.1) were most responsible for any wins those Lakers got in his first 2 years but 1.7 for his whole career?!  He’s a better player than I’ll ever give him credit for but his efficiency and effect on winning is sunk due to coaches using him like he’s actually a stud.  26% is crazy.  Way too slow of foot. Get him around 18 or 19 and he’d be a Super-Sub using his size and angles the way he does.  I imagine he would be if Lin were active.

I’m slowly trying to learn about these Blue Chips coming out this year.  So far all I know is Trae Young can shoot like hell, Bagley needs a haircut, and Ayton needs a much bigger jersey.

Edited January 5, 2018 by benhillboy

[sturt]

Toyed with the Clips as-if we might go ahead and win one, but naaaaaaahhhh.... ultimately stuck to our principles, and pulled out the 108-107 loss.

Excellent.

[NBASupes]

On 1/5/2018 at 5:46 PM, benhillboy said:

Bruh I had to immediately check that in disbelief.  It was clear that Clarkson (7 WS) and Randle (7.1) were most responsible for any wins those Lakers got in his first 2 years but 1.7 for his whole career?!  He’s a better player than I’ll ever give him credit for but his efficiency and effect on winning is sunk due to coaches using him like he’s actually a stud.  26% is crazy.  Way too slow of foot. Get him around 18 or 19 and he’d be a Super-Sub using his size and angles the way he does.  I imagine he would be if Lin were active.

I’m slowly trying to learn about these Blue Chips coming out this year.  So far all I know is Trae Young can shoot like hell, Bagley needs a haircut, and Ayton needs a much bigger jersey.

Russell better than those WS and the other two are worse.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 1/3/2018 at 6:59 PM, NBASupes said:

Both Bamba and Ayton is superior to both of those prospects, just like Doncic is superior to other busts. 

So you're taking Bamba and Ayton over Bagley?  If so, why do you think those two are over Bagley?

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So you're taking Bamba and Ayton over Bagley?  If so, why do you think those two are over Bagley?

If we are going best player available, no. But if we are talking needs and talent into the picture, yes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

35 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If we are going best player available, no. But if we are talking needs and talent into the picture, yes

OK.

Well if we go off of need, that will be the kiss of death.  If we're in the top 3, we better get the BPA, regardless of need.  If we're going to suck like this, we can't just get an Al Horford level player.  We need a guy who is a potential Hall of Famer.