Worrisome......

[DBac]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Dirk in Dallas and McDyess in Denver. 

There have always been stretch 4s (Jack Sikma, Larry Johnson, Antwan Jamsion, Sam Perkins, Kukoc, Marshall, Sabonis(5)) .  The game just always circles back to the dominant Bigs. 

 

Yes, but guys who were known as inside players have started stepping out. Look at those players I mentioned and how their 3pt attempts shot up after the success of the Heat. Blake Griffin another guy like that.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Dirk in Dallas and McDyess in Denver. 

There have always been stretch 4s (Jack Sikma, Larry Johnson, Antwan Jamsion, Sam Perkins, Kukoc, Marshall, Sabonis(5)) .  The game just always circles back to the dominant Bigs. 

 

Those were anomalies. In the 80s. How many guards was playing like MJ?

Sam Perkins was rare in his time 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

Why is he a center and not a PF? I agree he's played as advertised from college, but I see his long-term future at PF, if the Hawks want to get the most out of him. The biggest and best centers in the league will always have a size advantage on him, and I don't think he'll have a mobility advantage when centers these days move as well as guards. Watching him so far, he's capable of playing minutes at C and being productive but I'd much rather have him at PF, even with the spacing concerns.

 

I'm not too critical of the offense given the circumstances, but imo we take too many threes and we don't have a consistent threat to score inside outside of Schröder. That's obvious of course, but Collins in scoring in the post would do a lot more than Cavanaugh shooting jumpers. I don't know how Bud sees things, but I don't want us to miss out on Ayton/Bagley/Bamba just because the GM wants a perimeter scorer. That's cool for the Warriors but it works great for them when they've got two of the best shooters in the NBA. I think we'd be better off trying to form a tandem with a big and Collins in the post and force teams to guard the paint which could then open up the 3 point shot. Bigs shooting jumpers to me is only very effective when you've got guys like Curry and LeBron who can break down any defense. I don't think we can get that in this draft, but we can get guys who can potentially dominate in the paint.

Paragraph 1 has already been proven in a small sample.  When Bud finally decided to start Collins and Dedmon together, they played well.

And paragraph 2 is dead on the money.  People forget that one of the more innovative teams of the past 25 years, was the mid 90s version of the Houston Rockets.  They were the classic inside - outside team that ran the half court offense through Olajuwon, and surrounded him with as much shooting as possible.  Dwight Howard's Orlando team in 2009 played the same way.

You have too many teams trying to replicate Golden State's style, with mediocre shooters.

[nathan2331]

 

 

Defense. Bamba defense fits Bud's system like a glove. He will only get better with more development. 

Ayton does have the mobility to switch but Ayton hands are constantly down till more recent games. His off ball defense can lull and his awareness on D come and goes especially for rim protection. He plays defense like a finesse PF when he has elite center tools. It's insane. That said, his man and post D is very good. Bamba post D is pretty weak. He needs to get stronger. 

I think both will be WIPs on defense. I see both of their offense translating more than their defense. Defensively, Ayton is kinda like Towns. He really is going to have to develop his off the ball D. Offensively, Ayton is kinda like Towns again. Maybe better in the paint out of college and not a blackhole like Towns is. 

That said, Ayton most similar comparison to someone in the NBA right now is Towns. Ayton has a better body, mobility, frame, and speed when both were in college. 

Although that's NOT his NBA comparison. That's who he's most similar too. 

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Ayton is pretty similar to Towns, though I think he's produced more than Towns did in college so far. Towns defense has been poor but I'd also blame the Timberwolves player development for that. Wiggins' defense was abysmal for the Wolves, and he has the tools to be an impact player on defense.

 

Ayton will come into the league a bad defender, but I don't see why he can't fufill his defensive potential in time with good coaching. Even Collins I think in time will become a good defender. All things considered, I think Ayton at this point would be our best bet. If we can resign Dedmon, that would give us a big rotation that could outplay a lot of teams.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Ayton is pretty similar to Towns, though I think he's produced more than Towns did in college so far. Towns defense has been poor but I'd also blame the Timberwolves player development for that. Wiggins' defense was abysmal for the Wolves, and he has the tools to be an impact player on defense.

 

Ayton will come into the league a bad defender, but I don't see why he can't fufill his defensive potential in time with good coaching. Even Collins I think in time will become a good defender. All things considered, I think Ayton at this point would be our best bet. If we can resign Dedmon, that would give us a big rotation that could outplay a lot of teams.

Games like tonight for Bamba is why I keep harping that Bamba isn't ready to be an impact player defensively. He will take time on defense. Maybe not as much time as Ayton but he will take time nonetheless. I still will say Bamba will surprise people in the NBA with how much better on offense he is than people think. 

 

Ayton has a higher defensive ceiling than Towns. That said, he will take time. Rotations will be an issue. Rim and paint protection as well. He will fit in well with Bud's switching system. But there is a lot into Bud's defense. He might start as a rookie but don't expect him to play anywhere near 30MPG. 

 

I agree, resigning Dedmon is key. Ersan and Marco aren't as important. Dedmon is very important. He's a key resign. I would like to lock him up for 3-4 years. He can be what Thabo was Prince and Carroll. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Those were anomalies. In the 80s. How many guards was playing like MJ?

Sam Perkins was rare in his time 

Not anomalies.  I mean, in one time, you had Dirk, McDyess, R. Wallace, Perkins, Larry Johnson, Rashard Lewis, and Antwan Walker,  Detroit won championships with a fleet of Lambeer and Budha.   Bob McAdoo was a Stretch 4.   The Stretch 4 has always been, it's just not been celebrated.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Not anomalies.  I mean, in one time, you had Dirk, McDyess, R. Wallace, Perkins, Larry Johnson, Rashard Lewis, and Antwan Walker,  Detroit won championships with a fleet of Lambeer and Budha.   Bob McAdoo was a Stretch 4.   The Stretch 4 has always been, it's just not been celebrated.  

Most of those mainly came from the 2000s era. They got drafted in the mid to late 90s and revolutionized the game in the 2000s era. Which was my entire point.