It's Crystal Clear We Should Dump TP!

[LastDon]

TP is a good player but I just feel like he doesn't have that much potential..His jump shot is pretty good but his lack of athletic ability is starting to show when he attack the basket he doesn't have the lift to make him more than an average starter..I haven't looked at the advanced numbers but I think the hawks should dump TP for a broken Stanley Johnson...

[benhillboy]

His advanced profile has actually picked up from about a month ago, still well below an average player with little to no impact.

I just fail to see the awareness and IQ to effect the game in enough ways.  I barely notice him off the ball, on it he usually seems rushed.

Edited January 13, 2018 by benhillboy

[LastDon]

What about the previous seasons..Bud could fix him..He still have more Potential than Taurean Prince..It would also help in the tanking department..Get Stanley include marco or Bellineli with Taurean to get Detroit to add a 1st..Get Stan and give him the green light and he would develop into a better player than TP in the long run..

Edited January 13, 2018 by LastDon

[JTB]

Hmmmm I’m not so sure about this one. Personally I’m fine with where Prince is as long as he continues to make 3s at this level. Defensively he can be a lot better but the whole team could be better defensively honestly however on most nights no one is showing enough effort on that side of the ball.

Yeah I just don’t know. Stanley Johnson is intriguing however. Interested in what other posters think of picking up Stanley Johnson in a trade for Prince.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The team doesn't play to the strengths of the personnel, so we really can't fully judge Prince on this season.  This is a "give him more offensive responsibility" type of year.   He's shot the 3 ball very well.  Tonight, his offense was just off and he yielded to Dennis, because he had it going.

As for his advanced numbers, I will go though his offensive play types.  It'll show what he's good at, and where he's weak.

SPOT UP - ( Frequency ): 33.6% . . . . ( Points Per Play ): 1.01 . . . . EFG%:  56.4% . . . . ( Score Freqency ):  39.9%

TRANSITION -  ( Freq ): 18.4% . . . . ( PPP ):  1.00 . . . . EFG%:  60.8% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  45.3% 

P&R HANDLER - ( Freq ): 15.1% . . . . ( PPP ):  0.59 . . . . EFG%:  35.7% . . . .  ( ScFreq ):  28.7%

OFF SCREEN - ( Freq ):  11.0% . . . . ( PPP ):  1.02 . . . . EFG%:  54.3% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  38.1%

HANDOFF - ( Freq ):  8.2% . . . . ( PPP ):   0.91 . . . . EFG%:  52.9% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  40.4% 

ISOLATION - ( Freq ):  4.2% . . . . ( PPP ): 0.63 . . . . EFG%:  35% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  29.2%

 

These play types represent 90.5% of Taurean's offense, so this gives us a snapshot of what to look at.   It looks like shot creation is his biggest issue.  He's not good at all as the Pick and Roll ball handler and in Isolation.  In these situations, he mainly tries to get to the basket, instead of having a solid midrange pull up jumper he can rely on.  All of that can come with further development.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If you were just look at his shooting and advanced numbers, and not know who he was, there's no way anyone would advocate taking Stanley Johnson.

35% FG - 29% 3FG - 78% FT - 47% TS - 8.0 PER - 0.53 WS/48

Honestly, those numbers are horrible.  And this is a 3rd year NBA player we're talking about.

This is Johnson's best game as a pro, which came last season:

 

This is Prince's best game as a pro, which came 2 weeks ago:

 

I'll keep Taurean.   The only way you trade him for Johnson, is if you REALLY want to bottom this team out, and have them in hell for the next 5 years.  Taurean is a lottery pick . . remember that.  You don't give up on him after 1.5 years, in a year in which the organization has stripped the team down to the bare bones.

[NBASupes]

He's a role player on a bad team. There numbers are always worse due to the supporting cast 

[ISOJOE]

I think the only useful way to use TP in a trade is to pair him with Dennis and get a top8 pick or some equal talent.

Everything else makes no sense because you need solid starters like him who make 15mil in their prime, being the 4th offensive option of a contender and the primary defender of opponent's best wing/forward scorers. There are not many 6'7-6'9 guys in the league who are above average shooters and defender. TP will be one of them if he stays healthy. You don't trade him to get somebody who has played like a scrub (I don't say he'll be one for the rest of his career) his first couple of years. 

[benhillboy]

Looking at Prince’s closest comparisons in Ingles (rather have) and Josh Richardson (probably not) I’ll give him another year to figure it out.  Johnathan Simmons  has seemed to take a step back due to an increased role on a lesser team, clearly what Prince has done.  Hopefully the opposite will occur when the roster improves.  Is Denzel Valentine any good?  I thought he was supposed to be some kind of high-ceiling ball-handling wing.  The consensus is we’re straight on Stanley.  

I’m still a Thabo fanatic.  Very surprising .591 TS and 16.26 PER this season.  Never surprising are his ridiculous defensive boxes.

Edited January 13, 2018 by benhillboy

[TheFuzz]

Taurean Prince for Stanley Johnson?! Naw, I'm good. Never liked Johnson 

[ISOJOE]

nah... those comps are not really accurate imo. Prince has the potential to be a top5-10 pure 3nD player in the league. He can defend almost every guard and forward (remember when he guarded Wall in the POs for some possessions and it looked really good. I have no idea why Bud didn't put him on Wall for a whole quarter to see if this is real). If he sticks to catchnshoot 3s, cutting and drives in (semi)-transition he'll be really valuable and every contender would love to have him as a starter. 

He will probably be sth like Trevor Ariza with a slightly better jumpshot.

[LastDon]

Yeah, I think I would pass on Stanley as well..I went back and looked at some highlight tapes of him and he doesn't play very athletic..He is like a smaller worst shooting version of Taurean..I thought he was more athletic than he has shown coming out of Arizona.. But I would pawn the latest of those 3 first rounders to take a look at him..Prince need someone to push him.. Oan Deandre Bembry was a mistake as well..its time to move on..

Edited January 13, 2018 by LastDon

[StephenHawking]

vor 12 Stunden, ISOJOE sagte:

I think the only useful way to use TP in a trade is to pair him with Dennis and get a top8 pick or some equal talent.

Everything else makes no sense because you need solid starters like him who make 15mil in their prime, being the 4th offensive option of a contender and the primary defender of opponent's best wing/forward scorers. There are not many 6'7-6'9 guys in the league who are above average shooters and defender. TP will be one of them if he stays healthy. You don't trade him to get somebody who has played like a scrub (I don't say he'll be one for the rest of his career) his first couple of years. 

That would be complete nonsense.

Bundle a promising sophomore lottery pick and an average pg starter in this league for a project like Colin sexton or something. That would get us nowhere. We have to maximize on talent and possible chances. Not go two for one and then hoping for sexton to become a starting caliber player like DS17 already is.

[AHF]

18 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The team doesn't play to the strengths of the personnel, so we really can't fully judge Prince on this season.  This is a "give him more offensive responsibility" type of year.   He's shot the 3 ball very well.  Tonight, his offense was just off and he yielded to Dennis, because he had it going.

As for his advanced numbers, I will go though his offensive play types.  It'll show what he's good at, and where he's weak.

SPOT UP - ( Frequency ): 33.6% . . . . ( Points Per Play ): 1.01 . . . . EFG%:  56.4% . . . . ( Score Freqency ):  39.9%

TRANSITION -  ( Freq ): 18.4% . . . . ( PPP ):  1.00 . . . . EFG%:  60.8% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  45.3% 

P&R HANDLER - ( Freq ): 15.1% . . . . ( PPP ):  0.59 . . . . EFG%:  35.7% . . . .  ( ScFreq ):  28.7%

OFF SCREEN - ( Freq ):  11.0% . . . . ( PPP ):  1.02 . . . . EFG%:  54.3% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  38.1%

HANDOFF - ( Freq ):  8.2% . . . . ( PPP ):   0.91 . . . . EFG%:  52.9% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  40.4% 

ISOLATION - ( Freq ):  4.2% . . . . ( PPP ): 0.63 . . . . EFG%:  35% . . . . ( ScFreq ):  29.2%

 

These play types represent 90.5% of Taurean's offense, so this gives us a snapshot of what to look at.   It looks like shot creation is his biggest issue.  He's not good at all as the Pick and Roll ball handler and in Isolation.  In these situations, he mainly tries to get to the basket, instead of having a solid midrange pull up jumper he can rely on.  All of that can come with further development.

 

Nice breakdown.  I'll add that when I looked at his shots by distance the pattern was clear.  Good near the rim and from 3.  Pretty terrible in between.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Looking at Prince’s closest comparisons in Ingles (rather have) and Josh Richardson (probably not) I’ll give him another year to figure it out.  Johnathan Simmons  has seemed to take a step back due to an increased role on a lesser team, clearly what Prince has done.  Hopefully the opposite will occur when the roster improves.  Is Denzel Valentine any good?  I thought he was supposed to be some kind of high-ceiling ball-handling wing.  The consensus is we’re straight on Stanley.  

I’m still a Thabo fanatic.  Very surprising .591 TS and 16.26 PER this season.  Never surprising are his ridiculous defensive boxes.

Speaking of Thabo . . . . too bad.

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/01/13/report-utah-jazz-thabo-sefolosha-season-ending-injury-mcl-knee

Edited January 14, 2018 by TheNorthCydeRises

[ISOJOE]

vor 5 Stunden, StephenHawking sagte:

That would be complete nonsense.

Bundle a promising sophomore lottery pick and an average pg starter in this league for a project like Colin sexton or something. That would get us nowhere. We have to maximize on talent and possible chances. Not go two for one and then hoping for sexton to become a starting caliber player like DS17 already is.

Nah, I don't talk about sexton and not necessarily about this year's draft. Maybe I should rather say top6 pick. But let's imagine we would get this year's Magic First or sth like that:

It would be likely that the Hawks have the chance to get either Doncic and Bagley or Ayton and Trae Young. (Unrealistic best case: Ayton and Doncic, worst case: Young and Bamba). 

[Cwell]

I've peeped this all season. When Prince performs well, this board is complete crickets. But as soon as he has a bad showing folk bring out the pitch forks. It's not like this is first season with meaningful minutes or anything I guess. lol and dude suggested Stanley Johnson? The dude that has already proven to be a complete dud in the NBA? smh hilarious

[JTB]

9 hours ago, Cwell said:

I've peeped this all season. When Prince performs well, this board is complete crickets. But as soon as he has a bad showing folk bring out the pitch forks. It's not like this is first season with meaningful minutes or anything I guess. lol and dude suggested Stanley Johnson? The dude that has already proven to be a complete dud in the NBA? smh hilarious

Lol...well hey man the haters are gon hate! ...the same thing done to Dennis with certain posters when he plays well.

i guess if you don’t like somebody you just don’t like them no matter what.

[Cwell]

48 minutes ago, JTB said:

Lol...well hey man the haters are gon hate! ...the same thing done to Dennis with certain posters when he plays well.

i guess if you don’t like somebody you just don’t like them no matter what.

it's funny as hell. These guys are losers at heart. Prince has shown the most skill out of any young Wing we've had here in a very long time. He's in his first full regular season in the rotation, playing with majority castoffs/borderline NBA level players, Has been very efficient, with many decent scoring games, yet I come to this board.....and nothing. But, let him have an off night a couple times.....lets trade him for Slava Medvedenko lmao

Yet the same losers LOVE Demarre 'didn't even look like a competent NBA level player until 5-6 years in, and has been trash since he left Atlanta' Carroll, and career role players that have never showed up in big games in their career's like Kyle Korver. They embrace the suck completely lol

Edited January 15, 2018 by Cwell

[thecampster]

On 1/12/2018 at 11:06 PM, LastDon said:

TP is a good player but I just feel like he doesn't have that much potential..His jump shot is pretty good but his lack of athletic ability is starting to show when he attack the basket he doesn't have the lift to make him more than an average starter..I haven't looked at the advanced numbers but I think the hawks should dump TP for a broken Stanley Johnson...

Uhm....no

 

What is with people giving up on contributing players while still in their rookie contracts?